ball_asteroids

[Boko]

I kinda felt this map was missing!

All graphics are made by the same creator of tbd_asteroids: Protest Boy.

I'm still not happy with the bottom, maybe some nice ideas for that one?

Well, it pretty much speaks for itself actually, please review!

Download the map: here

Picture: here

[nesnl]

Creator of that map was Protest Boy.

First thoughts: the sides seems uneven. Try designing one side of the map and then select everything there and go to "Mirror -> Left/Right". Also I think it might be too big. Lamster did quite a bit of analysis and we settled on an "ideal" map size for ball, which is about 3000 pixels from goal to goal and about 1600 tall (this is why a lot of the maps got a redesign). The spawns should ideally be equally placed between the goal and the center point (which it looks like you did). However, your map may be closer to this ideal than I think, I can't know without actually opening up the map. But if it's based on the same size as the original TBD map then it is going to be a fairly large map.

I also think that it's tough to make ball maps with such jagged objects. Not saying this map won't work, but when you have so many objects with unpredictable collision areas, it is hard to make a good ball map in my opinion because bounces can't be predicted very well. This is why maps like mayhem2, core, or planepark work well because the collision is smooth and predictable. I think for asteroids to work it would need to reduce the amount of total objects in the field and have a lot of horizontal passing lanes.

Let me know if you put the map up for download. I will take a look at it.

[Harmonica]

Looks interesting -- almost Mayhem2-ish in the middle, but Snow-ish at the goals.

Is it hosted anywhere?

It looks like a map where lots of Loopies would far poorly in combat, but where receiver runs would really dominate (both good things, imo). It feels like a decent passing game would be quite effective, while crappy passing (aka "death throws", aka "dump and chase", etc) would be even poorer than usual -- I think those are all good things. The irregular surfaces also things interesting: self-passing becomes impossible (good!) but intentional bounce passes seem also impossible (aww....)

Clearing might be somewhat problematic: the middle and top routes to the goal are in-line with the enemy's spawn, so only the bottom route is likely to be consistently safe. I like the multiple options out from the bottom for passing to receiver runs, but it also feels as though that bottom 'compartment' might become an area where everybody just mushes together. It also feels as though Explodets and Bombers would have a significant combat advantage, although the angles would require Loopies, Mirandas, and Biplanes to handle passing.

Overall I think it would likely lead to some long, frustrating goals -- but also some very balanced team builds.

That's all just speculation, though. =) I'd be interested in playing it.

[Harmonica]

Oops -- looks like Maimer types faster than I do. =)

Originally Posted by nesnl

First thoughts: the sides seems uneven.

I agree with this. While a flawlessly-mirrored map might not be necessary all the time, it seems like access to the power-up spawns and several of the routes through the middle are different enough to affect the game.

Originally Posted by nesnl

have a lot of horizontal passing lanes.

This is the only point by Maimer than I really disagree with: while horizontal passing certainly has its place, it's generally the poorest way to pass -- only marginally better than throwing the ball away. While there haven't been many (any?) vertical-passing-oriented maps to compare with (does Darkwar count? Planepark? Snow?), I suspect that having more vertical passing lanes than horizontal lanes will lead to better Ball games -- although it would also frustrate and infuriate teams that don't have enough good passers/receivers, doubly so for Ladder-Balanced teams that end up that way.

[tgleaf]

Boko, always great to see more people working on/editing BALL maps.

I played it with bots (so not a real analysis, but still...) and the spawn points seem perfect. You can self-pass along the bottom easily, which I like, but harm is right that random throws do not benefit you (good design).

It looks right for 5v5... let's get it on a server and play it!

The main problem I see is that you can make a LONG shot from just past center with a whale or bomber too easily.

[Boko]

I've put up a download link in the original post!

I did mirror all the stuff, but I just selected all the items from the right side, copied it and mirrored it (and edit etc). The middle is supposed to be uneven, to make random skirmishes happen more often. (Just spotted the bottom is not centered, I'll fix that). I agree on the jagged objects, self passing is almost impossible on the rocks and that does make random bounces happen more often. (not good imo). I'm thinking of making that map totally mirrored though, it would make it more balanced as you said.

Good thing on spotting the snowish part of the goal sides This map was built for good passers and to counter all the random loopy spam that happens so often. It's also fit for skilled flyers that can fly/pass through the small passageways (at the start and on the bottom rock of the goal area) and turn the game around.

Thanks for the criticism, I'll definitely use the feedback!

[classicallad]

good job boko, although with all the jagged objects my flexplodet would own here. :P

[DryBone]

yay, an asteroid ball map nicely done. Got nothing to criticize or give advice

[Boko]

I've made the map symmetrical and removed the long pass from the center of the map. It's still possible but it's a bit harder now. I'd like to keep it in because everyone I know enjoys shooting in the ball from the bottom at snow.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Boko

I've made the map symmetrical and removed the long pass from the center of the map. It's still possible but it's a bit harder now. I'd like to keep it in because everyone I know enjoys shooting in the ball from the bottom at snow.

I like the change to block the easy long center shot. And I agree that the bottom long shot is a good thing to keep. Server???

[Boko]

Working now, if all went good!

[A doughnut]

nice map but a correctly-aimed shot from the center would easily be able to go in.

[Boko]

Is the shot from the center still possible? Btw, darkwar? Most favorite map on ladder for all I kno, and a shot from the center is possible in that one too.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Boko

Is the shot from the center still possible? Btw, darkwar? Most favorite map on ladder for all I kno, and a shot from the center is possible in that one too.

That center shot looks nearly impossible to me now that you've changed it. The map looks good... we just need to test it (broken record).

[tgleaf]

Boko, this is a GREAT map. We played 4v4 for a while and it just works. 5v5 would be fine but possibly a little crowded. I wouldn't change the size at all... but if you want it to be official/ladder, you'd have to. I think it's a really fun, quick 4v4 map.

Spawns work perfectly, power-ups are well positioned, the long shots were not a problem, and... surprise... loopies still dominate by flying in zig-zag patterns through all the rocks, but mirandas are also deadly good for scoring goals. I had thought thermo might be way overpowered on this map, but it doesn't seem to be. It's hard to spam much (yay), random throws often leave you at a disadvantage (cool), and there are some fun surprises you can pull off under the goal, etc.

[Edit: it's currently hosted on truepa!N's 6v6 ball server.]

[gemigemi]

I agree, it's a great map. 4v4 and even 5v5 it's fast and hectic fun. The problem is that it's definitely too small and crowded for 6v6 which is what ball is aimed to be currently.

Making more room would either require a larger field or less obstacles. Taking away any obstacles would make it worse I think, so making the field larger (in width, not height) should probably be done.

Good job so far!

[Boko]

I improved the map for 6vs6!
Given some space in the center for the more crowded servers and I put an earth in the center on the background

[tgleaf]

Boko,

From the picture, I was worried the Earth graphic would be distracting, and it is (just played 6v6). The size seems good for 6v6, but I'll need to play it some more to be sure. Also, the green/orange planes can be difficult for color-blind people, so you might think to change that (yes, I know there's an option setting for that, but just making it red/blue or blue/green, or red/azure, or something along those lines helps).

There's a problem with the top corners. I believe a randa can get through there. In the game I played, the ball got stuck (and lost) twice in a row up in the corner area.

[tgleaf]

Hoping this map can be made official, too.

[Boko]

I updated the map (finally ). It now has team specific powerups at the bases for defending, a bomb at the top center (I dunno if this will work but I could be used as a powerful tool!), a different floor. It's ment to be the floor of the moon or somethin. I made the graphic of the earth a bit darker, including the stars (which annoyed me) on the background image.

Check it out again!

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Boko

I updated the map (finally ). It now has team specific powerups at the bases for defending, a bomb at the top center (I dunno if this will work but I could be used as a powerful tool!), a different floor. It's ment to be the floor of the moon or somethin. I made the graphic of the earth a bit darker, including the stars (which annoyed me) on the background image.

Check it out again!

You didn't really mean a bomb, did you? The map is really well-designed. Please don't add any bombs. Also, the earth graphic looks really cool but detracts from the game play. It needs to go. Thanks.

[Boko]

Removed the earth graphic, didn't care that much for it anyway
We played a couple of rounds on truepains server with 6vs6 or around and it was pretty fun to play actually. The bomb was fun to use but too many players went after the bomb runner, which was followed by no defence which was followed by a goal. But it was used in a good manner and was hilarious when a cluster was bombed. I'll upload the new version sometime soon!

Edit: uploaded it, I'll upload some vids in the old one too, it was kinda funny

[tgleaf]

Can someone add this map to one or more public servers? I'd love to see it in rotation.

[Boko]

I'll try and ask gemi to put it on the #4 of arr too

[gemigemi]

This map can now be played on arr servers 1-3. It is not in rotation though so it can only be accessed by voting a map change to it.

[Boko]

Thanks Gemi, after playing a bit everyone kinda agreed that the map was too clustered and dense for a 6v6. So Imma let myself finish, it.

Edit: I updated it so it's a bit more open, removed and resized a bit. This should be tested naw.

[A Nipple]

i havent tried it yet but will and post up!

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by Boko

Thanks Gemi, after playing a bit everyone kinda agreed that the map was too clustered and dense for a 6v6. So Imma let myself finish, it.

Edit: I updated it so it's a bit more open, removed and resized a bit. This should be tested naw.

The new version of the map is on the servers now. After a quick check this one is much better than the earlier one, but have to test it for real of course.

[nobodyhome]

Has anyone played this yet? How does it play out?

[York]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Has anyone played this yet? How does it play out?

yea nobo it is super nice. definetly ladder worthy. PROPS boko.

PS, I am working on 1dm_planepark. idk if mandrad had any intentions of it but what ever.

i am also gunna try making ball_fallout.

[gemigemi]

Tested the new version out today. It's fun to play and doesn't seem to be dominated by whales easily like the old map. Sure, this could be official.

[mlopes]

As I told boko last week when we were playing this map (my nick is GUI.tar case you're wondering when did this happened) on one of ARRs public servers, I like this map, a lot. I think the scattered rocks give some space for small planes with agile pilots to maneuver and outrun defenders. I got very pleased with some manuvers I was able to pull when I managed to avoid hitting those rocks. It can lead to very nice goals and attacks.

[elxir]

map is on ladder now, and it is awesome.

only thing i noticed was that the positioning of the top rocks by the spawn mean that whoever spawns in the top has to be quick or they will hit a rock.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by elxir

map is on ladder now, and it is awesome.

Nice, hope it becomes official soon, I'd love to find it on rotation on some ball servers out there. Ball asteroids is one of my favorite maps already (wich is funny cause TBD asteroids is not one of my favorites).

[Boko]

This got official

I feel like I'm on a boat

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Boko

This got official

I feel like I'm on a boat

Congrats! It's a good map.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Boko

This got official

I feel like I'm on a boat

congrats, but I still feel the bottom of the map needs a bit more work

right now it just looks like you got tired of working on the map and decided to make the bottom straight with a couple of rocks here and there

[Boko]

The bottom needs to be straight with a few rocks here and there! (the pebbles make for hilarious crashes)

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by Boko

(the pebbles make for hilarious crashes)

I actually enjoy hating those pebbles, I hope they stay. Hope in the form of yells at my screen, but still.

Gratz for your officialization, it's really great to see new good maps !

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by Boko

The bottom needs to be straight with a few rocks here and there! (the pebbles make for hilarious crashes)

That and screwed passes, I don't know how, but every pass seems to go directly into one of those pebbles and then the ball goes directly up, I get frustrated every time.

My lack of ground passing skills apart, I love ball_asteroids and I'm glad it became official. Thanks for making it.

Congrats, and keep the maps coming.