Scaling XP earned for ace ranks

[zwanglos]

So I've noticed that the biggest problem ace ranks has brought about is that the majority of people are farming it up in whatever way they see fit, and some even go to the extent of abusing loopholes. (I feel like I'm one of the few who doesn't do either, I usually just play on Official 3 as usual) I'm glad lam and karl have taken action against the obvious abusers, as stated elsewhere. I find myself echoing the sentiment that these various methods aren't very 'prestigious', but, you know, whatever. To each their own, I guess?

However, I think the greatest negative aspect that ace ranks has brought about is newb farming in particular. I think it will scare new players away from the game. I just got done reading the thread about the OhJeah! fun servers, and it seems a lot of more experienced players go there to beat up new players for cheap 'n' easy XP.

Regardless, no matter what system you set up, someone will find a new way to farm, but I think the major problem here is that it's making things harder on people who just got the game. Being bullied by multiple aces probably isn't much fun when they're trying to get past, what, level 10? And when not crashing into walls is still a huge obstacle? Speaking from experience, going up against someone of vastly greater skill in a game is usually a turn off for newer players, as they end up feeling like it's a lost cause to even bother starting at that point.

My suggestion: scale the XP earned by ace pilots, based on the rank of the enemy they killed. But only after they reach ace status: ideally, this wouldn't affect non-ace players.

After starting out on Ace 1, the amount of XP you earn for kills changes, based on the rank (and thus, ideally, the skill level) of your enemy. Thinking about it, it doesn't make sense that you can get the same amount of XP for killing a level 1 player in a demo loopy as you can for killing someone who is ranked Ace 5. Most RPG games with XP systems will scale the XP earned - the tougher the opponent, the more XP.

Thus, the experience gained from killing newbs (if we define 'newb' as anyone who is not in an ace rank yet) would be scaled down significantly, but at the same time you scale up the amount of XP earned from killing other Ace pilots a little bit. This would (hypothetically) shift the focus away from farming/bullying new players over to fighting other aces for your prestige experience. Thus, the people playing in big bouncy servers would be the people that just want to genuinely have fun there, not the ones that want to farm some easy XP.

Just to throw out a random figure, let's say you'd have to kill a new player 10 or 20 times to get the same experience you'd get for killing an ace player just once.

Possible downside: people would start 'ace farming', but don't ask me how that would work.

Thoughts?

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by zwanglos

Possible downside: people would start 'ace farming', but don't ask me how that would work.

Thoughts?

People could accomplish this by kicking all non-ace players from the game. Why would you want someone in the game that was giving you less experience? This to me would be a bigger turn off to new players. Instead of getting killed by better players they would just be vote kicked by all the ace players. Also, what about people like me who choose not to do ace? I would be in threat of getting kicked because I wasn't a high enough experience target.

[lamster]

I think we've avoided the most serious "aces farming new players" issue pretty effectively with the introduction of "New Players" servers (maxLevel=59, which excludes aces of all levels) plus new default server filters that sort those servers to the top for new players. If you look at the current 10v10 servers you'll mostly see aces farming each other.

That said, the ace system does currently encourage veterans to play on massive XP farm servers even though most game modes were balanced around 10-14 players. To remove this unhealthy incentive the next patch will include a player-count based experience normalizer. When there are 10 or fewer players active on a server aces will gain experience 40% faster; at 14 players experience will accumulate at the current rate; beyond 14 players you'll accumulate experience slower in proportion to the excess player count. Aces will now be able to choose their servers based on gameplay; experience incentives will be roughly equivalent for all player counts.

[zwanglos]

My idea is just a rough brainstorm at the moment. But you raise some good points.

People could accomplish this by kicking all non-ace players from the game. Why would you want someone in the game that was giving you less experience? This to me would be a bigger turn off to new players. Instead of getting killed by better players they would just be vote kicked by all the ace players

True, I hadn't considered that. Or, perhaps, ace players will just migrate to more exclusive servers like ladder or proleague?

But to an extent this already happens. I've seen newer players voted out of a server simply to make room for someone more well-known. That's not even to speak of newer players voted out for being too, well, new. People get voted out for bomb camping/wasting all the time, for example, the majority of them new players.

Also, what about people like me who choose not to do ace? I would be in threat of getting kicked because I wasn't a high enough experience target.

Well, change the parameters: 'new player' < lvl. 60 or ace.

[zwanglos]

I think we've avoided the most serious "aces farming new players" issue pretty effectively with the introduction of "New Players" servers (maxLevel=59, which excludes aces of all levels) plus new default server filters that sort those servers to the top for new players. If you look at the current 10v10 servers you'll mostly see aces farming each other.

Perhaps it's just the times I come on, but those sorts of servers don't look particularly populated.

That said, the ace system does currently encourage veterans to play on massive XP farm servers even though most game modes were balanced around 10-14 players. To remove this unhealthy incentive the next patch will include a player-count based experience normalizer. When there are 10 or fewer players active on a server aces will gain experience 40% faster; at 14 players experience will accumulate at the current rate; beyond 14 players you'll accumulate experience slower in proportion to the excess player count. Aces will now be able to choose their servers based on gameplay; experience incentives will be roughly equivalent for all player counts.

Sounds interesting, and definitely like it will at the very least remove the incentive for farming the huge 10v10 games. It might also encourage people to the ladder servers more, since those are already tuned to 5v5, thus more experience... I wonder what kind of effect it would have on the Official servers, though?

[elxir]

I mean...it's not exactly easy to get Ace 10. It's been an entire month since ace ranks were introduced, and there are a total of three Ace 10's. Only one of us has reached 10/60 (eth).

I like the admin's idea of scaling based on server size as opposed to player rank. It would just turn into the other team headhunting high level aces.

[zwanglos]

Originally Posted by elxir

It would just turn into the other team headhunting high level aces.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that there be a difference in scaling between aces, e.g. an Ace 10 kill nets you more XP than an Ace 1 kill; just that there be a difference between killing 'new players' and anyone lvl. 60 and up. Otherwise, yeah, if an Ace 10 joined a server, suddenly everyone would be hunting him down like crazy.

[Triped]

Originally Posted by lamster

That said, the ace system does currently encourage veterans to play on massive XP farm servers even though most game modes were balanced around 10-14 players. To remove this unhealthy incentive the next patch will include a player-count based experience normalizer. When there are 10 or fewer players active on a server aces will gain experience 40% faster; at 14 players experience will accumulate at the current rate; beyond 14 players you'll accumulate experience slower in proportion to the excess player count. Aces will now be able to choose their servers based on gameplay; experience incentives will be roughly equivalent for all player counts.

That's a nice change! Thanks.

[Pieface]

Originally Posted by elxir

I mean...it's not exactly easy to get Ace 10. It's been an entire month since ace ranks were introduced, and there are a total of three Ace 10's. Only one of us has reached 10/60 (eth).

In my opinion that's exactly the problem. The fact alone that several people were able to get to Ace 10 in just a month shows to me that the Ace system doesn't mean as much. In my opinion gaining Ace ranks should be a slow process that can't be completed in just a short amount of time. Not to discredit your work, but scaling the XP based on player count should cause a lot of people to stop joining these 20v20 servers just to farm experience and return instead to the ones that they most enjoy.

[number 3]

omg. here we go again....... someone is gonna **** up the game. and ALL of us have to pay for it

[zwanglos]

Originally Posted by number 3

omg. here we go again....... someone is gonna **** up the game. and ALL of us have to pay for it

That's uncalled for. A suggestion is just a suggestion.