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  #1  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:26 AM
lamster lamster is offline
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Default Patch: Mar 31st, biplane/bomber balance adjustments, bug fixes

================================================== ===============
March 31st, 2010

Biplane (All Forms) increased turning rate by 1.5% (6.5 -> 6.6)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) increased primary weapon ejection velocity (17 -> 19, note: reduced lifetime so that max travel distance is unchanged)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) slightly increased primary weapon damage (38 -> 39)
Biplane (Heavy Cannon) slightly increased primary weapon damage (109 -> 112)

Bomber (All Forms) decreased turning rate by 2.9% (7.0 -> 6.8)

Tightened Miranda teleport collision check to prevent exploits
Fixed a bug that prevented Steam players from changing their nickname
Fixed a few miscellaneous bugs

-------------------------------------

For those who've mastered the Miranda teleport-through-wall exploit: please let me know if this patch has fully resolved the issue. If there are still problems please private message me with detailed reproduction steps (map name, exact position required, video if available) and I'll fix them up.

Last edited by lamster; 04-01-2010 at 06:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:39 AM
Deathblade Deathblade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamster View Post
For those who've mastered the Miranda teleport-through-wall exploit: please let me know if this patch has fully resolved the issue.
I'm sure they will...

QQ Queue in 3...2...1...
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:39 AM
The Turretnator The Turretnator is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamster View Post
================================================== ===============
March 31st, 2010

Biplane (All Forms) increased turning rate by 1.5% (6.5 -> 6.6)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) increased primary weapon ejection velocity (17 -> 19, note: reduced lifetime so that max travel distance is unchanged)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) slightly increased primary weapon damage (38 -> 39)
Biplane (Heavy Cannon) slightly increased primary weapon damage (109 -> 112)

Bomber (All Forms) decreased turning rate by 2.9% (7.0 -> 6.8)

Tightened Miranda teleport collision check to prevent exploits
Fixed a bug that prevented nickname changes
Fixed a few miscellaneous bugs

-------------------------------------

For those who've mastered the Miranda teleport-through-wall exploit: please let me know if this patch has fully resolved the issue. If there are still problems please private message me with detailed reproduction steps (map name, exact position required, video if available) and I'll fix them up.
Awesome upgrades for the Biplane... ive always felt it were clunky regarding its turning rate.... But DOWNgrading the bomber's??? Are you kidding me? Why?!?!
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:42 AM
Smushface Smushface is offline
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Nice balance patch. Props and much love.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:44 AM
<[*D.X.*]>Wraith <[*D.X.*]>Wraith is offline
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I had the teleport down to a fine art...key word HAD. You've definitely fixed the problem. I would assume that's a good thing...although I will definitely miss getting kicked, threatened and sworn at.
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:50 AM
tgleaf tgleaf is offline
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Not that I'm a pro bomber by any means, but I think the turn rate is fine for BALL. It's a bit trickier/slower to make a u-turn, but otherwise I don't notice much difference.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:56 AM
Nikon Nikon is offline
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Hey what does the nickname thing mean? Does it mean that you can change your name and then change it again right away?
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  #8  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:59 AM
lamster lamster is offline
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No -- a previous patch broke nickname switching altogether for some Steam users -- for most users the functionality is unchanged.
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:06 AM
Nikon Nikon is offline
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Okay thanks for clearing that up. But the bomber turning annoys me a lot, I don't know why you did that but please change it back.
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:25 AM
adjahe adjahe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikon View Post
Okay thanks for clearing that up. But the bomber turning annoys me a lot, I don't know why you did that but please change it back.
I'm certainly not known as a bomber, but I've been known to dabble. The turning change is hardly noticeable. In some cases it helps aim. Also notice it still has better turning stats than biplane, a much small plane. For a plane known as a "heavy" the bomber still has great turning.
buff D:{
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:01 AM
wolf'j'max wolf'j'max is offline
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Ahhh biplane! Yay! Bomber didn't really need a nerf but mmkay. Ill go do that randa teleport tomorrow can't today since i have to travel.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:04 AM
nobodyhome nobodyhome is offline
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Nice stuff. Initial impressions are that the changes are very faint, but we did notice some things like HC being able to 3 shot a HA bomber instead of 4 now. Will have to play more to get a feel of whether biplane is balanced now.

Keep the good work coming!
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:14 AM
Zombi Zombi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamster View Post
Biplane (All Forms) increased turning rate by 1.5% (6.5 -> 6.6)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) increased primary weapon ejection velocity (17 -> 19, note: reduced lifetime so that max travel distance is unchanged)
Biplane (Dogfighter, Recoilless) slightly increased primary weapon damage (38 -> 39)
Biplane (Heavy Cannon) slightly increased primary weapon damage (109 -> 112)

Bomber (All Forms) decreased turning rate by 2.9% (7.0 -> 6.8)
YAY!!1 I think we have a perfect balance now.

Thanks a lot Lamster, great work
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:15 AM
DiogenesDog DiogenesDog is offline
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huzzah! good changes all around!
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:48 AM
Luke Luke is offline
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Seems good. I tried a few maps and i couldn't go through walls since I died much faster than before the patch. I tried just 1 min, tho.
The only spot where i managed to do this was on the central tower in lostcity (see image, anchor line shows the path). Not that is a big deal, it's useless to do that there.
Since it's still possible, my guess is that the thru-wall pros will still manage to do it to cross to the other side. =)
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2010, 09:11 AM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikon View Post
Okay thanks for clearing that up. But the bomber turning annoys me a lot, I don't know why you did that but please change it back.
I haven't had a chance to play yet, but I am confident I will rage a lot harder than this.
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2010, 10:13 AM
Zombi Zombi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
I haven't had a chance to play yet, but I am confident I will rage a lot harder than this.
Use your flak/supressor
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2010, 11:16 AM
Saya Saya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamster View Post
Tightened Miranda teleport collision check to prevent exploits
Consider me grateful.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2010, 01:41 PM
gammelonkel gammelonkel is offline
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As a biplane user; Thanks you so much!

And it doesn't seem unbalanced now either. Great update!
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2010, 02:06 PM
CCN CCN is offline
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Does this mean I can now catch the ball mid-warp in ball?

Off to check that out!
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  #21  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:40 PM
lamster lamster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCN View Post
Does this mean I can now catch the ball mid-warp in ball?
No, Miranda still "warps" from A to B (does not collide with weapons or powerups along the path) but the "can't warp through walls" rule has a tighter implementation now.
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  #22  
Old 04-01-2010, 04:25 PM
wyclef wyclef is offline
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Biplane gets some respect finally. Clef! HEAVY CANNON BABY!!!!!

oh yeah, shame on you for messing with BOMBER!!!!! YOU CAN LOWER THE TURN RATE TO .0000000000000001% I WILL STILL FIND YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Pieface; 04-01-2010 at 05:56 PM. Reason: merged posts
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  #23  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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As Luke already said, there are some spots where you can warp through, but it's much harder now.
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  #24  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:14 PM
Superdan Superdan is offline
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Thanks for the update. I think the bomber may have been in need of a mini nerf and it's been well discussed that the biplane needed a little buffing...

Good news all round!
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  #25  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:30 PM
Zero Zero is offline
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Biplane is so sexy now =D

PS. Watch out for my HC now =p
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  #26  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:40 PM
Flyngbanana Flyngbanana is offline
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Now all thats needed is to slightly rebuff remote mine and everyone is happy

Nice update.
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Triped Triped is offline
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Thanks for another good patch, guys.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:21 PM
Demuyt Demuyt is offline
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The truth is, if I hadn't read this, I wouldn't have noticed anything
Good job on balancing!
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2010, 09:11 PM
MasTR MasTR is offline
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The truth is, I didn't read this, and I noticed that bomber got nerfed (first I thought they nerfed me).
I also knew about the biplane buff because someone said it.
One step forward and one step back.
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2010, 09:26 PM
Zombi Zombi is offline
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Come on guys, Bomber is the most powerful plane and we're talking about a reduction of only 2.9%
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  #31  
Old 04-02-2010, 12:31 AM
Hollywood Hollywood is offline
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I actually like the reduction on the turning speed for bomber it is less sloppy when aiming now. It is way easyer to aim, and therefore making it easyer to get kills with.
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  #32  
Old 04-02-2010, 12:48 AM
gemigemi gemigemi is offline
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This yet again shows that you guys listen to the community. I haven't had the time to test yet so I can't really say if it's a good balance update, but it definitely follows on the lines of the community discussions lately. Good job!
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  #33  
Old 04-02-2010, 10:55 PM
innerlyte innerlyte is offline
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I've had a chance to play the biplane a bit since the patch. For the most part, the changes were so subtle, I hardly noticed them (which, I'm sure, was intentional), but I think there is still more balancing to be done. The idea of a turning buff was nice, but again, not noticeable. In terms of the weapons buff, I thought it was a little odd that primaries were upgraded. Referring to the latest biplane topic thread, I only remember seeing people suggesting a secondary buff, as that seemed to be the most logical. Of course, the devs may have a different goal in mind, so we have to take the changes at whim. Since I've never been exceptional with either recoilless of dogfighter, I'll let someone else comment on the patch in that area. As for HC, I can kind of understand that the primary received the buff to make it even more of a sniping plane, but it still feels frustrating that secondary really does so little. Granted, you're only going to use it in close combat situations when you have enough energy for F+D, but sometimes you only have enough energy for D, which, in isolation, feels about as effective as a misting fan.

Overall, I think it was nice that the biplane got a buff, but I honestly don't see it bringing the plane back into competitive games. I will reiterate my suggestion from before, I think HC should receive full pierce (or at least a more substantial pierce) as it did in beta. I think it sounds reasonable since you are a)not increasing the primary's DPS and b)not increasing it's RoF. It really would make that build unique, allowing it to snipe a bomb carrier through escorts. I don't see much harm in increasing secondary either, since it's range is so short. Since you can only fire off a couple HC shells at full energy, you will spend a lot off time jamming F with no result. This is especially detrimental when it close quarters with enemy planes. A secondary buff would be helpful in competitive play, but perhaps a little imba in pub games. I realize it's a balancing act that you (lam/karl) are playing, but I'm hoping you have more in mind for lam's favorite plane
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2010, 12:15 AM
[Y] [Y] is offline
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Maybe this unnoticeable buff is Lam and Karl's effort to not show favoritism since they've revealed that the biplane is Lam's favorite plane. Who knows.
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  #35  
Old 04-03-2010, 01:00 AM
GGQ GGQ is offline
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You really dont notice the buff to biplane? I've found it very helpful.
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2010, 02:19 AM
innerlyte innerlyte is offline
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To be honest, I really don't. Perhaps I'm just not very sensitive to fine adjustments. Of course, I use reverse thrust in my set-up, so I really wouldn't notice the turning buff as much as flexi wings users. Anyway, the point of my previous post was mainly to be taken into the competitive context. Would you now choose to pilot a biplane in an important APL or ladder game or would you stick with bomber or loopy? Part of what makes every other plane so effective in the competitive setting is their ability to affect multiple opponents simultaneously (excluding perhaps the Miranda, but since it is so ridiculously agile, it doesn't matter). The biplane really doesn't have that ability. And since it's middle of the road in speed, health, and agility, there are usually better options out there. My suggestion to reintroduce pierce would give the biplane (or at least one version of it) the ability to damage multiple planes, making it more effective in crowd control. On a one-on-one level, the biplane has never really been underpowered. Adding pierce back wouldn't really imbalance that facet of play.
Regarding the other 2 setups, perhaps the most recent buff was enough. I don't really know. I would say that is more in your department, GGQ, and I trust your opinion. I do, however, think HC has been the weakest of the 3 since halfway through last year. Bringing biplane back into competitive play would be great, though, since I'm tired of always playing bomber and explo.
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  #37  
Old 04-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Rhyn0 Rhyn0 is offline
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AS an almost exclusive HC/biplane player, i can say this: while the buff is a step in the right direction, i don't feel it has levelled the playing field. The damage buff to HC.. i didn't see any difference.. some1 said it serves something along the lines of needing 3 shots instead of 4 to snipe a HA bomber.. which is a situation so remote as to not matter..I do like the projectile speed increase for DF/Recoiless, i find it the most usefull thing about this patch.
The turning buff is nowhere sufficient to dispense with flexi wings( imo) , and at least for me all it did was completly mess up my HC aim. I am still struggling after a few days to get back to the level of reflex snipes that i had before the patch.. having to think a shot instead of just letting one off "by feel" and watching it connect at the edge of the screen.

By no means is this a bad thing for biplane, it's a step in the right direction, but as it's been said before, i do not feel it fixes what's wrong with it.
Better pierce would imo give the biplane a role in stopping pushes with the bomb at the rear. In 5v5 league play, i find i have to move aside or be swept away by the enemies' push, and try to be a last resort weapon, sniping the enemy bomb carrier from the side before it gets a chance to release.. I have logged over 150 hrs flying HC exclusively, and the number of times i got a doublekill from pierce, even in a 10v10 is so small as not to matter. Secondary.. well it's a hail mary attempt at best.. a buff to it would help with the hunter killer role of the biplane, but not in league play.
One suggestion for a small buff that would help alot but not overpower, would be a ROF increase for the HC. With a head-one pass, with the time spent making that tiny adjustment to aim, that the loopy for example doesnt have to do, i find i rarely get the time for that second, killing shot.

My 2 cents.
Thanks for the great game and support!
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  #38  
Old 04-03-2010, 08:39 PM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGQ View Post
You really dont notice the buff to biplane? I've found it very helpful.
i've found that biplanes kill me more =\
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:26 PM
nobodyhome nobodyhome is offline
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I noticed that HC biplanes now kill HA randas in two shots if they have a single veteran bar. This probably wasn't true before this patch. They also might be able to kill HA loopies in two shots if they have a veteran bar or two. I suggest those looking for ways to reincorporate biplane back into their play maybe try out using ace instincts or to prioritize their own safety more in play so that they spend more field time with veteran bars on.

Hopefully this might prove to make HC viable, or maybe not. Lam, if you'd like to give your thoughts on this, what other critical points does the HC buff change? Things like HC being able to three shot an HA bomber instead of four, etc?
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2010, 07:04 PM
lamster lamster is offline
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You've already noticed the key critical points: HA Bomber (0 vet) and HA Miranda (1 vet). The other critical points are much less important in my opinion -- they typically moved the vet req a single level e.g. for Bomber from vet9+ace to vet8+ace:
HA Loopy (3 vet, or 2 with ace instincts)
HA Explo (4 vet)
Normal Biplane (6 vet)
Normal Bomber (8 vet with ace instincts)
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