A super cereal Trickster discussion

[ufo]

With the recent srs talk about the biplane in competitive settings, I would like to extend balance discussions to the Trickster Miranda. It is important to keep in mind that part of what makes this game so unique is the devs' awareness to the fact that the sanctity of this game is entirely based on plane balance in a competitive context. So if you have any input to share, please consider meaningful scenarios such as league matches, instead of basing your beliefs on what happened to you one time in a pub ****fest.
I expect to get a lot of flak from those who already think that the Miranda is hax enough, as well as those who will inevitably cite 'luck' as the only way a Trickster ever wins a dogfight, so I'm doubting much serious attention will accompany this matter, but i hope that open-minded, constructive thought will dictate the direction of this discussion.


In the last major balance patch on January 15th (see http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374) the Miranda got a major overhaul. I will only choose to explore the nature of the changes that directly affected the trickstar; my personal conjectures will follow.

The first point of interest:
All Miranda set ups don't heal when using the secondary ability *D*, meaning that reversing/anchoring now stops healing just as warping does.

• This was talked about extensively following the patch so there's nothing left to discuss. Despite my disappointment, this needed to happen, and it's made me a better player in the meantime.

Second:
Charged shots can't hit the same plane twice.

• I've come to accept this nerf for what it is: a way to eliminate lucky bounces in the proximity of terrain. If I have to live with this change permanently, so be it; however, I really came to appreciated the technique of adjusting my aim of a charged shot slightly to hit the side of the plane adjacent to the wall in order to effectively 1-shot enemies as they come around a corner. As this technique is rarely used, and more significantly, never acknowledged by the player who falls victim to it, I'll consider the double bounce a lost art.

Third:
Each bouncy decreases damage by 25% instead of 20%.

• I couldn't possibly express my bewilderment when I read this;
  The disconcerting notion of making the most skillful shot in the game even less powerful seemed counter-intuitive to me, and given the buff to the biplane primary (which I consider to be the arguably second most skillful primary alongside the splo's) I feel as if this specific nerf should be re-evaluated. Practically speaking, the nerf made it so a fully-charged, well placed bounce shot kills a significantly less proportion of smoking planes. Having had plenty of time to adjust to the January 15th patch, I've been in many situations where I bounce a Loopy, Randa, or Biplane in the most ridiculous way and they don't die, leaving me feeling disgruntled and jipped.
  
  -For example, in a fairly recent ladder game on core, Hurri was fleeing mid whilst smoking and heading towards his base to heal. As I passed mid using the top lane, I aimed a fully-charged bouncy off of the the curvy boarder of the map up there, and my shot hit him right in front of his turret, yet he remained alive. Hurri can confirm if he so wishes or remembers.
  
  Through this instance I hope to illustrate a very broad, important point: *Luck is rarely a factor in competitive games.* League matches and the ladder give us a wonderful opportunity to scrutinize and qualify the metagame. Most recently, it has been observed that the Dogfighter Biplane has little relevance in 5v5 TBD settings, so it got buffed; I'm merely calling for the same consideration regarding the Trickster because I believe that it can readily be seen that there has been a hostile takeover by lazor Miranda's in the more serious parts of the game.

My biggest issue since the January patch is how limited I feel. The skill ceiling for this set-up went from infinitely far away to two inches from my head. I used to feel as if I always had some specific technique to improve upon, now I only have mechanics. The effects of these nerfs have visibly filtered into the playerbase, and it has gotten to the point where I've been faced with a troubling realization: ufo is the best all-around trickster in the game, and I'm terrible... so there's obviously something wrong here.

In theory, Lazor was buffed because no one was playing it, and Trick was nerfed because everyone was playing it. However practically speaking, the divide is still quite apparent, its just the other way around now.

[Bukem]

You've just summed up my thoughts and experiences wrt the miranda changes perfectly. I don't understand the logic behind nerfing the damage of the bounce shot. I have little to add except a major +1 to what you've wrote. I may be biased tho cos I <3 the miranda so much, and it still rivals the bomber in dominating 1dm.

[Pieface]

I've pretty much scratched Trickster in favor of Laser and Bomber for all competitive games, which is pretty sad because I actually felt that the old Trickster had one of the higher skill ceilings in the game.

My thoughts about the last patch: while in TBD it might have been mainly luck to use the double-hit right (not sure because I hardly ever could do it!), in 1DM it was certainly a highly appreciated art and seemed to be quite often a matter of placing the shot in the exact right place. While not amazingly high on my agenda to reinstate, I certainly miss it.

One thing that always bothered me was that they gave the ability to repair while using the secondary back to anchor mirandas, but not to tricksters or lasers. I guess I understand the argument behind this, but the result is that the one plane without a real secondary also isn't able to heal while using it.

I agree with the bounce-shot theory as well. One of the reasons people presented for nerfing it was that most times you got hit by a bounce was because of luck, but I actually feel that it is quite the opposite. To me, it always seemed that in most cases bounces had to be precisely aimed in order to work.

I really hope that something is adjusted to make things a bit better, because when I feel more comfortable playing bomber than trickster something is definitely wrong. I almost always play laser now except in 1DM, and I definitely think it shouldn't be hard to find an equilibrium where we have an equal number of lasers and tricksters in the competitive scene.

[Evan20000]

As much as I want Trickster to be buffed, I think that it would be difficult to buff it without imbalancing it, like many believe laser has been.

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by ufo

For example, in a fairly recent ladder game on core, Hurri was fleeing mid whilst smoking and heading towards his base to heal. As I passed mid using the top lane, I aimed a fully-charged bouncy off of the the curvy boarder of the map up there, and my shot hit him right in front of his turret, yet he remained alive. Hurri can confirm if he so wishes or remembers.

Lewl, sorry ufo, I don't remember this specific instance . It is important to note that my main setup for competitive games is Heavy Cannon, Heavy Armor, Ultracap, which may explain in part why I didn't go down. HA gives Biplane about as much HP as a Bomber, I believe.

[CCN]

Not being able to bounce of the same plane twice lowered the skill ceiling a lot, as well as the bounces doing less damage.

Hardly anyone plays trick because it does less damage then any alternative out there.

Im glad someone finally agrees with the skillful double bounce being a skill.

[Radium]

I totally agree with this
And just like Pie said, I no longer is Miranda as much as i used to =\

[Stormich]

Not being able to bounce lowered the skill ceiling? If anything you need to be actually good to use it now. The reason why trickster isn't as useful is cause of the metagame shift due to healing being changed. Now that laser users put heavy armor on their planes tricksters have a hard time winning 1v1 close quarters. Maybe a rollback on the bounce damage should happen but the bounce on the same plane should never return. The only mirandas in game that I've seen use bounce shot well are UFO, Snow and King so maybe they deserve their skill to be a bit buffed. Also i still think a good trickster sniper can put any team in a world of hurt if used correctly, it's just that most of you guys are used to shoot+dash, now you actually need to learn to aim while trying to avoid point blank situations.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by Stormich

The only mirandas in game that I've seen use bounce shot well are UFO, Snow and King so maybe they deserve their skill to be a bit buffed.

I see how it is! *Adds storm to **** list*

[CCN]

Originally Posted by Stormich

Not being able to bounce lowered the skill ceiling? If anything you need to be actually good to use it now. The reason why trickster isn't as useful is cause of the metagame shift due to healing being changed. Now that laser users put heavy armor on their planes tricksters have a hard time winning 1v1 close quarters. Maybe a rollback on the bounce damage should happen but the bounce on the same plane should never return. The only mirandas in game that I've seen use bounce shot well are UFO, Snow and King so maybe they deserve their skill to be a bit buffed. Also i still think a good trickster sniper can put any team in a world of hurt if used correctly, it's just that most of you guys are used to shoot+dash, now you actually need to learn to aim while trying to avoid point blank situations.

Absolute Tosh.
Double Bounce was my number 1 go to move against any whale pre nerf on pretty much any map. Also against lighter planes if I could work the situation (e.g. Asteroids top bomb running route - not the round the screen one)). Bounce shots to hurt bomb runners with protection was also a common tactic.
As UFO put in his top post, no one admits that it was a skillful bounce shot or a skillful double bounce, its always luck to those who get hit by it.

[Evan20000]

Agreed. The usual spots that whales hang out usually have a spot that lets you consistantly get a double bounce on them. Also, the Trickster vs HA laser is still and always will end in favor of the trickster 99% of the time.

[Stormich]

Bounce shot isn't always luck, only top trickster can make good bounce shots, most people (myself included) just try to bounce spam some points. Also, take a look at Cloud or UFO (when he goes attack mode) what they can do with trickster. Giving mirandas 120+96 (I think those are roughly shot/bounce shot numbers) damage on a lucky shot is just too much. Basically you have a long range weapon that does the second most damage in game behind laser, which is short/mid range. I think you should just realize that miranda is glass cannon type plane. Tricksters main role should be picking off stray/crippled planes and getting out.

[Evan20000]

It still is. Reliably double-bouncing someone works usually only on large camping targets. It can still happen outside of luck on smaller targets, just not as often.

[Smushface]

Couple of points.

1) I agree with the idea that people equate bounce shots too much with luck. Most everything, including this game, involves probability and to think that trickster players who hit a target based off of sheer luck is absurd. Just like loopies and bombers spam chokepoints because its a high probability kill, tricksters go for the highest probability bounce shot they can hit.

2) I also agree with the idea that lazer has become more popular, looking at tbd ladder because the best randa setup in ball seems to be time anchor. Where I disagree is that its because lazer is better than trickster, but I think its rather because lazer is easier than trickster at a high level of play. The change from lazer being played by 1 or 2 people to being played by about half of current mirandas, was pretty minor (1 4% buff and 2 1% buffs). Which is why I disagree with any possible lazer buffs because I personally do not want to see anymore lazers.

3) There are several ways of looking at balance, each with their own merits. The first is that you can say, X out of top X players are using X setup, which means it is overpowered / fine / underpowered. This argument is bad for reasons I won't go into now but would go into if someone really feels like challenging it, I'm tired. There's also X does this, why can't Y do that? Again, flawed, won't go into it now. The only real balance argument I feel like anyone can reasonably make is that my plane / class / perk is strong in this situation which fits my role but weak in another role I'm supposed to fill and the bad outweighs the good, so buff me. It's essentially how Mikesol convinced everyone that Time anchor deserved getting repair drone back. And I think trickster has a very specific niche in this game (for example, tricksters are better bomb runners and better at killing small planes than lazers are). So looking at tricksters in this role, I conclude that:

Tricksters could use a very, very small buff, probably decreasing the amount of damage is lost from each bounce back to 20%. More than that would make it too strong.

Poorly worded but it's late and i'm tired. I'll fix it up later.

[elxir]

I agree that the second bounce should do more damage, other than that I have no real issue with trickster other than the rage inducing cool down time on reverse. Especially since that is your only evasive maneuver when emp'd.

I started playing miranda about a month ago (so I don't know about pre-patch stuff) and I'd like to say I'm respectable with it. Bounce shots are one of the key strengths of a randa and they just don't do very much unless the other plane is incredibly damaged.

[nesnl]

I would have no problem if the damage of the bounce shot were increased, but one thing I would like to see is the speed of the miranda shot reduced. It is basically the only thing in the game that you aren't able to dodge because it moves so fast. (Except of course a 400+ms Loopy, those missiles are in fact not dodgeable). I know a lot of people will whine about reducing the speed of the miranda shot, but I don't really know what justifies having something in the game that you can't dodge.

[Evan20000]

You can't dodge HC easily because it's a sniper weapon designed for long distances. I don't see how trick is any different in this regard.

[Luke]

Wait, you can usually dodge a heavy cannon shot?

[argonide]

Originally Posted by ufo

ufo is the best all-around trickster in the game

Didn't you harass me for a duel a short wile ago then lose decisively? ^_^

In my opinion, miranda is over-powered in the modes where the goal of the game is ratio(1xx, duels, tdm(it would be op here if anybody played this competitively, doesn't really help in pubs though since poor ratio teamates just die and respawn 2 seconds later to die again, so you are forced to go for volume over ratio)).
In tbd it seems a little weird to me. Its ok, but not as great as decent timewarp for dropping. I find my Miranda becomes more effective the better my team is and can turn small advantages into bigger ones, since if we have map control I can dart around and abuse all the specials.

Without map control though, or if the other team is really heavy it seems pretty ineffective. A miranda might as well be be shooting blanks against a few good heavies in a push.

Miranda can also do those lame warp-pickup-warp-drop bombs.

All-in-all even with the nerfs I think trickster is a viable tbd plane choice, but its definitely not as easy to play as the other planes. Even after years of playing I really have to be 100% focused to play good tbd trickster. Which isn't true at all for the other planes.

[ufo]

Originally Posted by Pieface

To me, it always seemed that in most cases bounces had to be precisely aimed in order to work.

With the investment of energy and position required by the ever-devious bouncy, a player should be rewarded for connecting on a shot.

Originally Posted by hurripilot

It is important to note that my main setup for competitive games is Heavy Cannon, Heavy Armor, Ultracap, which may explain in part why I didn't go down.

I checked as I fell back a little to regen some nrg, the verdict is...flexi! (I could be misremembering, and I'm sure hurri knows his set-up better than I, but I'm purty effin sure)

Originally Posted by Stormich

Now that laser users put heavy armor on their planes tricksters have a hard time winning 1v1 close quarters.

what storm said

Originally Posted by Evan20000

the Trickster vs HA laser is still and always will end in favor of the trickster 99% of the time.

what storm said.

Originally Posted by Stormich

Maybe a rollback on the bounce damage should happen but the bounce on the same plane should never return.

Fine by me. I'll see u in my dreams, u...sweet, sweet, 1 hit KOs. MUAH!

Originally Posted by Stormich

...it's just that most of you guys are used to shoot+dash, now you actually need to learn to aim while trying to avoid point blank situations.

cue tyr.
(Enter stage left)
*Soliloquy of deep-rooted disdain for Miranda and her randananigans*

Originally Posted by Stormich

Giving mirandas 120+96 (I think those are roughly shot/bounce shot numbers) damage on a lucky shot is just too much.

While I completely agree in principle with your thought, just how often do lucky bounces really occur in the league or ladder?

Originally Posted by Stormich

miranda is glass cannon type plane.

can we write miranda poetry together? <33

Originally Posted by Stormich

Tricksters main role should be picking off stray/crippled planes and getting out.

I believe one of the interesting things about the Miranda is how ill-defined its competitive roles appear to be. One of the first things I got good at was defense. In the beginning this manifested as simple block positioning. Later I expanded my abilities to include sniping offscreen using the bomb icon while maintaining position for a block. Soon thereafter, since I've been able to rely on 2 top splo's in league games for pure defense, I developed some ninja assassination skills on the bom runner regardless of map position, adding a more map control oriented defensive strategy to the mix; an offensive defense, if you will. Nowadays, I primarily focus on uniting these techniques with jedi mind control/force pursuasion in order to make a bom runner believe he's clear to drop, when I'm really just a reverse-warp away from the wide open space they see when I tell them to drop.
/nerd rant

Originally Posted by Smushface

The only real balance argument I feel like anyone can reasonably make is that my plane / class / perk is strong in this situation which fits my role but weak in another role I'm supposed to fill and the bad outweighs the good, so buff me.

Above, I hope I illustrated how the reverse randa approaches fulfilling one of the most fundamental roles in competitive altitude, and how it does so in a multi-dimensional manner. My point in doing so, without any further ramblings on elements of personal playstyle, was simply to show that the trickster's influence can be felt in every facet of the game. Getting back to smush's thought, buff me. My role ranges from defense to turret/map control to bomb running to bomb support/swoopies, and all the way back 'round to what storm said about simple hit and run tactics (not to mention how strong the Miranda is in ball games). When a team decides to field a Trickster Miranda in a league game, they're effectively trading "team health," so to speak, for versatility. I must concede, however, that the nerf to the bouncy doesn't directly influence any of the roles a Miranda must occupy. A trick randa still plays like a trick randa in a 5v5 TBD game. That said, the nerf undoubtedly made my bounce shots kill less, and in that sense, my effectiveness has decreased in these settings. Trickster now feels like the retarded cousin of lazor, just a plain reverse randa without any defining ability like its cousin or grandfather Anchor.
As such, I humbly request this...

Originally Posted by Smushface

Tricksters could use a very, very small buff, probably decreasing the amount of damage is lost from each bounce back to 20%. More than that would make it too strong.

All things considered and as I've said before, the double bounce was an enchanting aspect of this plane I love so much; one with which I had endless lulz attempting to master just as I have with the bouncy, but I understand how taking it out of the game came about, and I've already said goodbye.

Originally Posted by nesnl

one thing I would like to see is the speed of the miranda shot reduced. It is basically the only thing in the game that you aren't able to dodge because it moves so fast. (Except of course a 400+ms Loopy, those missiles are in fact not dodgeable). I know a lot of people will whine about reducing the speed of the miranda shot, but I don't really know what justifies having something in the game that you can't dodge.

I know this may be received as white noise coming from me, but this proposition sounds completely absurd. Other than my inherent feelings, and let's be honest, straight homo love for my primary snipa shot, I have no backing as to why I am so deadset against decreasing the speed (and for that matter, as it has been proposed in previous trickster balance discussions, making the damage of the shot proportional to the distance). I don't want to really delve into this topic too much cus I'm sure maim even knows that his idea will never come to fruition, but in terms of a concrete justification as to the inescapability of the pew, all I can come up with is:

• Lowest health

and

• Only one firing weapon

To all of those I responded to, know that I am only providing my input. That's what this thread is all about, so take my ranting with a grain of salt and keep the elaboration train goin. woowooooo

[ufo]

Originally Posted by argonide

Didn't you harass me for a duel a short wile ago then lose decisively? ^_^

Miranda can also do those lame warp-pickup-warp-drop bombs.

All-in-all even with the nerfs I think trickster is a viable tbd plane choice, but its definitely not as easy to play as the other planes. Even after years of playing I really have to be 100% focused to play good tbd trickster. Which isn't true at all for the other planes.

Well in my defense I was inebriated and had been up all night. I guess that's what they all say though...
As far as my self-proclaimed title, the phrase "all around" was intended to indicate that I was referring to general team play and such.

In all seriousness though, our duel was a learning experience and I had fun. I was trying to adhere to my propensity for turbo to see how it would match up against a formidable ultra in a 1v1 situation. It was a good time and I hope despite your boredom with our last match, we can throw down again sometime as I believe we only played to 13 or so last time.

Regarding King's thoughts on tbd play, I think the swoopy element of the Miranda is arguably the most important role it fulfills, and something that I have only just now really come to appreciate. I'm sure you were just joking about that aspect being lame, otherwise we're just not on the same wavelength when it comes to team play. And as I said before, trick still handles like trick in 5v5 tbd, I just don't quite understand why my bounce shot took a hit when we're supposed to consider balance the context of competitive play.

[CCN]

Bounce 1: 120 - 25% 90 -25% 67.5 - double bounce does 120 + 67.5 not 120 + 90 - 1st and 3rd bounce.

I would settle for moving the 25% reduction to 20%.

120 - 20% 96 -20% 76.8

[[Y]]

Being an HC user, I haven't played trickster much, but I'd like to make a comparison of the trickster shot to the HC shot, or rather, the trickster bounce to HC's pierce.

Every single plane in the game has some some of AOE weapon, the strongest or most prominent being:
Loopy- EMP, acid
Bomber- grenades, flak
Explodet- both types of rockets, both types of mines

Miranda and Biplanes' AOE weapons, however are more subtle. Miranda users have the bounce shot while HC users have the pierce. I understand they are supposed to be sniper shots meant for a single target, but if that was to be followed to the letter, then bounce and pierce should be eliminated altogether, because right now, their effects (pierce, at least) are a joke.

Nobo had started a biplane discussion thread in what I assumed was an attempt to make biplane viable in 5v5 play , and HC's pierce was brought up. While I agree that Miranda's double bounce on the same plane shouldn't be brought back, I think that the subsequent bounces' damage should be increased along with HC's pierce, augmenting both planes' aoe ability.

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

You can't dodge HC easily because it's a sniper weapon designed for long distances. I don't see how trick is any different in this regard.

Originally Posted by Luke

Wait, you can usually dodge a heavy cannon shot?

Originally Posted by ufo

I checked as I fell back a little to regen some nrg, the verdict is...flexi! (I could be misremembering, and I'm sure hurri knows his set-up better than I, but I'm purty effin sure)

It's pretty easy to dodge HC, actually. All you really have to do is jolt a little up or down and you can throw even a pro HCer's aim off. Not saying it's more or less easy to do the same with Trickster shot, just pointing that out.

Also, I may have been using Flexi, ufo, it depends on when this game was and whether or not I had HC unlocked at the time. I was just giving a general statement on my most-used competitive setup as a possible explanation for how your bouncy shot may not have worked. I honestly don't remember the event you eluded to, sorry buddy .

[ufo]

Originally Posted by hurripilot

I honestly don't remember the event you eluded to, sorry buddy .

lewl, s'all good. I was merely qualifying a point, that instance certainly wasn't the first time that happened with a bip else I wouldn't be beechin so hard

[matattack]

Originally Posted by ufo

Soon thereafter, since I've been able to rely on 2 top splo's in league games for pure defense, woowooooo

<3 u long time.

lets write moar poetry.

[Evan20000]

The "swoopy" element is probably a tricksters niche in leagues. That, and tricksters can counter every other light plane in the game fairly easily.

[elxir]

Quoting is hell in here so I won't try.

My updated thoughts: (this all applies to ball because well I barely understand TBD and the only thing I can do is kill stuff in that mode)

1) Re: Miranda's "role" (in ball!)

Miranda is excellent at carrying the ball across the map OR swooping in and snagging rebounds for a quick score. Not both at the same time because lolenergy. You need to know what your purpose is on any given possession. You can't fly around all willy nilly shooting anything that moves, because when the time comes for you to act on the ball, you will be out of energy. Miranda really needs to pick its battles to be effective.

2) Dodging shots

I don't believe dodging the randa charge should be possible. It takes like 2-3 seconds to fully charge a shot, and then you have to be good enough to actually hit something with it. Heavy cannon can get off like 4-5 shots in that same time frame post-patch. (times obv exaggerated but i aint countin)

3) Miranda's role as a killer

The miranda's job, in my opinion, is to kill anything and everything that is trailing smoke. It is largely a waste of time and energy to take on a full strength plane out of anything less than absolute necessity. A great randa pilot can snipe a smoking ball carrier out of a pack and stall an advance for a precious few seconds. Anyone who is a very good shot can also hit ball carriers who are off screen, accomplishing the same result.

4) defense (ball)

It is my opinion that trickster is a better defensive plane than TA. Trickster has nearly double (triple if you are ultracapped and full energy) the "backwards" range of a TA randa, and can cover the goal in a split second from very far away. A good way to play defense with randa is to stay 1-2 teleport lengths from the goal and snipe at anything that looks weak, and you can jump into the goal if you need to save a shot (then rage when you miss cuz the shooter has 238 ping).

5) Trickster reverse cool down time

I think this should be reduced, ever so slightly. If you try to reverse in tight spaces you will hit walls and die cuz you can't double reverse fast enough.

Also, it is very aggravating to do some cool **** like reverse->steal ball->reverse->oops cooldown->die

Word up.

[CCN]

There is nothing more useless then a trickster in ball. Its potential roles are better done by other planes. Seeing a trick on the other team is a boon, on your own team a sad face =(.

Does Tmic still use trick or did he switch to TA? Apart from him (who would be better as a TA) there is no one who uses trick who I wouldn't trade for any 1500 ladder player.

Its also great how you don't adapt for lag at all.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by CCN

There is nothing more useless then a trickster in ball. Its potential roles are better done by other planes. Seeing a trick on the other team is a boon, on your own team a sad face =(.

Does Tmic still use trick or did he switch to TA? Apart from him (who would be better as a TA) there is no one who uses trick who I wouldn't trade for any 1500 ladder player.

Its also great how you don't adapt for lag at all.

You're crazy dude. Took this 5 minutes ago on the {arr} server. 3 goals, 2 assists.

Trickster isn't useless. People just suck at trickster.

[CCN]

yeah totally, your anecdotal evidence against such tough opponents as Tofuhavok has made me change my mind. There's been absolutely no good tricksters who have switched to ball.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by CCN

yeah totally, your anecdotal evidence against such tough opponents as Tofuhavok has made me change my mind. There's been absolutely no good tricksters who have switched to ball.

I've been using trickster in ladder for the last day or two and my ranking seems to be doing alright.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by elxir

I've been using trickster in ladder for the last day or two and my ranking seems to be doing alright.

You're absolutely sure you didn't lose say 2 games, then switch to whale for the remainder of a ladder session say... yesterday?

Near the end of your losing streak you switched to whale and were actually effective. I remember because fighter X was there being useless and I was trying to encourage you to move back to trick while being on the opposite team.

Originally Posted by ufo

ahem.. zibpadeedoooooodaaaaaaaaaaaaah, zibbeti-yay

i ball hard

I was being sarcastic.

[ufo]

Originally Posted by CCN

There's been absolutely no good tricksters who have switched to ball.

ahem.. zibpadeedoooooodaaaaaaaaaaaaah, zibbeti-yay

i ball hard

[ufo]

The poo throw between ccn and r87 needs to stop. Get ur PM on if y'all r tryina eff each other, in the mean time keep this vacuous bs out of my thread.

Thanks my o my, what a wonderful day

[elxir]

Originally Posted by CCN

You're absolutely sure you didn't lose say 2 games, then switch to whale for the remainder of a ladder session say... yesterday?

Near the end of your losing streak you switched to whale and were actually effective. I remember because fighter X was there being useless and I was trying to encourage you to move back to trick while being on the opposite team.

You're confusing me with sunshineduck.

I don't whale. Ever.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by ufo

The poo throw between ccn and r87 needs to stop. Get ur PM on if y'all r tryina eff each other, in the mean time keep this vacuous bs out of my thread.

Thanks my o my, what a wonderful day

I'm not flinging poo. I really don't think trickster is useless.

EDIT: p.s. why does reverse cost more energy than TA? (it seems like it does i migth be wrong)

[CCN]

This isn't a "poo flinging", I thought we were trying to get somewhere. Though I guess this gets nowhere. I think trick is useless compared to TA in ball and you don't.
Are you chrispaul or Rayallen?
Also who on your team goes rubber hull whale and plays trick miranda?

I guess a step on the path to proof is by playing trick for a few days and we can look at your ladder result.

[elxir]

I'm rayallen. I use bomber and trickster.

As I just explained to some good soul in ladder, I don't, and won't, use trickster "every game." That would be stupid and foolish. I use the plane that best fits the team I am given. I only use trickster when our team has at least 3 good heavys and my bomber is not needed. I will always switch to bomber if we are losing as it is my best plane.

[ufo]

/going no where