POLL: bring back captains games in ladder

[DMCM]

I never was a big fan of ladderbalance or auto-balance or any kind of balance. I understand the custom command is very useful, since you can immediately balance, start tournament AND pick map. I really appreciate the work you put into making that. However I don't understand why the option to choose teams manually was removed. Captains games are the best kind of competitive play. Not only is the balance based on skill instead of rank, it also results (usually) in plane balance because a captain won't let the other have all the whales (for example). Not only that, we also know the people who are likely to leave and/or screw up intentionally and we can choose not to let them play. So I would like to keep the custom_start comamnd but still have the option to start tournament with hand-picked teams, specifically for captains games, though some peole might also like clan scrims in there.

So i want to know, what does the community think?

[ADA]

Captains games were always fun and they also give players an incentive to become a part of the altitude community!

[elxir]

I like captain's games a lot better, because I am really good at picking teams. However, they pretty much come down to the team-picking skill of the two captains, and which captain is a better player than the other (since they are ostensibly the #1 overall picks).

[mled]

tough decision because when we play captains it takes 2 years just to get a game going but capts makes the games fun and makes players work harder to win...BUT then again u know ughgh maybe a organized way to make capts? yes i know wishful thinking!!!

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by elxir

I like captain's games a lot better, because I am really good at picking teams. However, they pretty much come down to the team-picking skill of the two captains, and which captain is a better player than the other (since they are ostensibly the #1 overall picks).

EXACTLY. Take it from me... I won about 75% of capts games and about 95% of capts games where I was the captain, versus about 50% (this is a rough guess, since I can't tell from my stats) of ladder balance games. Am I in favor of capts games? Well, from a personal/ego standpoint, heck yeah! But realistically, and in keeping with the spirit of the game (e.g. balance), NO. I don't think they are fair for the majority of people.

Also, what mled said about it taking forrrrrever to start games. It's so much quicker now, and I think that has dramatically increased the number of people playing ladder.

[Shiro]

I totally agree with you Dmcm, though the only problem with captains is players dodging.

[Pieface]

Several advantages I see of pure ladder balance over captain's games:

• Games are started quicker
• Impossible to dodge if you don't like your team
• Games are always balanced by ranking, and as the rankings become more proportionate to skill level the games will also become more competitive. Adding back captain's games gives more room for your ranking to deviate from your actual skill
• Allows worse or unknown players to get a chance at playing

That being said, I'd still like to see some additions to the ladder balance system in the future:

• Allow more than ten people to join the game, then place some as spectators depending on how long they've been waiting
• For future ladder seasons, still balance by lifetime ranking instead of season ranking so the balancing progress isn't lost
• Maybe one day keep track of which plane everyone plays most in ladder, average amounts of bomb hits and goal scores, etc. and balance so that there would be an even plane variety on each team as well

[drunkguava]

I think the point of the ladder is for it to be able to rank us by skill and if we let captains pick we are essentially saying that the ladder doesn't rank correctly. But then why are we playing it?

Plus, elixir and tgleaf are 100% correct. Picking teams is more a reflection of the captains' ability to know the players and the game than anything else. Part of the reason i was able to build up such a big lead in ball ladder was that I picked teams better than anyone else. My skills were obviously not as good as my score was reflecting (this was made apparent by my insane losing streaks after mandatory ladder balance was introduced).

That being said, plane balance is an issue that I hope can get resolved. I also really like Pie's idea of allowing more than 10 (or 12) players join a game and letting the server pick 10 (or 12) to actually play based on plane balance, waiting time, leaves, kicks, etc.

Balancing based on previous seasons is also a good idea, but I think it needs to be done carefully so as not to give people who are at the top this season too much of a disadvantage. Maybe it should be a balance component, but it should be a small one or one that phases out midway through the season imo.

[GGQ]

uuuuuuuuuugh

no captains pls

[D4rt]

Originally Posted by drunkguava

My skills were obviously not as good as my score was reflecting (this was made apparent by my insane losing streaks after mandatory ladder balance was introduced).

Your 2nd in ladder with 2440 points so this is bulls***, no offense.

[Triped]

I don't like captain's pick games and voted no. However, I liked clan vs. clan games on ladder. I would like some way to play with an arranged team that doesn't cause the problems captain's games caused.

[drunkguava]

Originally Posted by D4rt

Your 2nd in ladder with 2440 points so this is bulls***, no offense.

there was a stretch when i lost 16/20 . I'm back almost up to my previous score, but I feel like I've really earned it this time. I've changed up my style of play a bit etc etc not important.
My point was that captains games rely on things other than just how well you play and those things inflated my rating.