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| Map Making Discuss everything related to creating new levels here. |
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#1
06-03-2010, 01:23 AM
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Four Kinds Of Co-op Map Designs
With maps now proliferating on the co-op server, they can be divided into 4 kinds of co-op play experiences.
Race The map is a maze of obstacles often without an obvious path. The goal is to find out the quickest route to the base, usually involving disarming the minimal number of turrets necessary. Example maps: TEST, TOILET, UNDER Pros: Easy to play; easy to measure progress with the server timer; games are very short. Cons: Loopy-heavy; map "solved" by a few people who then have to chat to get others to cooperate. Linear The map is a single path from spawn to base, full of turret challenges. Example maps: BLAZE, DEATHSTAR, OBSTACLES, PACIFIC, VOLCANO Pros: Challenging throughout map; many opportunities for theme and storytelling. Cons: Few "learning" opportunities; easy for team to get strung out; many spectators by end of map; long play time. Teamwork The map presents several challenges that the team must solve simultaneously, often with squads of different plane types. Example maps: ELEPHANT, VOID Pros: Fosters plane balance; rewards teamwork & cooperation; has many "map-learning" opportunities. Cons: Very long game times. Hell The map contains one or more "hell rooms" full of turrets that are impractical to disarm and that must be run through, with very few survivors. Example maps: DEATHSTAR (ending); BLAZE (ending); BOROMIR Pros: highly challenging; whittles down team to make remaining turret challenges tougher. Cons: low skill; frustrating; hard to balance for different team sizes. The first generation of maps were Linear, with other types being discovered later. Most players I've been online with like Race and Teamwork maps best, with Elephant being the consensus #1 map so far. Hell maps are pretty unpopular. 
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#5
06-03-2010, 02:10 AM
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I think the beauty of elephant is that every plane is useful. You can fly whatever you want and still be credit to the team. Loopies for emping, randas for clearing the insides, bombers for breaking his back, and whales for wallmining his insides. But again, biplanes are lacking, but that's the biplane's fault
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#8
06-04-2010, 10:03 PM
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COOP_ENDOR is proceeding slowly. Bit of a design insight today, that there are basically 4 kinds of turrets:
Puzzle turrets Flow turrets Threat turrets Kill turrets Puzzle turrets are turret traps that you have to temporarily disable to allow others to get past. Examples include the Obi-Wan quest on Deathstar and the "cover" turrets on Bunker. DON'T USE THESE! OK, they were a neat idea, but from a design POV they've been nothing but BAD: *they put an even greater emphasis on EMP *it's unfun for loopies to keep circling and EMPing *if you fail the puzzle you lose the game *if you win the puzzle, "nothing happens" so the turrets are wasted *it takes a LOT of turrets to make a puzzle *no matter how tight you think a puzzle is, players will find a way to break it Flow turrets are turrets that are designed to direct the flow of the game, without being directly confronted. They define the "dead zones" on the map. Examples include the turret-heavy rooms in Void and Blaze, and most of the turrets on Obstacles. Use these sparingly: *once players understand the dead zones they will avoid them, making these turrets a waste *it takes a LOT of turrets to force the players into scripted actions like the necessary pass in Void *it's just not enough bang for the buck Threat turrets are turrets that HAVE to be EMP'd to win the game, and Kill turrets are those that HAVE to be killed to win the game. Most of your turrets should be of these types. A map that has more threat turrets, like Volcano or Toilet, will be more of a race. A map with many kill turrets, like Elephant or Boromir, will be team-focused.
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#9
06-04-2010, 10:29 PM
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On the topic of puzzle turrets: While they're boring by themselves, I think with other elements, they encourage good teamplay and a bit of fun. And you don't have to EMP them. A bomber or whale can sometimes hit them through a wall. :3
Last edited by Evan20000; 06-05-2010 at 03:27 AM.
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#11
06-05-2010, 11:23 PM
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I'm actually at a loss about what to do.
There's only two maps that can't be steamrolled, which are boromir and elephant. Most of the rest can be rushed easily. Test, blaze, pacific (whale rush gogo), toilet, even bunker a little. How to stop this without making it impossible for, let's say, 6 players? I really haven't got a clue, tbh. Too many turrets means it's impossible. Too few turrets means it's a cakewalk. Short range turrets means EMP, long range turrets means dodging. Stuff like that. Tight spaces somewhat work, but then it discourages you to use whales and bombers. Open spaces don't work because of dodging etc. Blocking paths with turrets hinders fewer players more because they have less firepower. I think it's the shields. Too many shields makes it too easy to steamroll through the hard bits. should I add less shields? Elephant is getting pretty dull tbh. The first bit is the hardest because of the small area and the heavy turrets on the head sniping everyone. But once those are gone, all you gotta do is break its back, which is quite easy with 2-3 bombers. The insides are tricky, but one or two randas and perhaps a loopy are enough to clear that too. But it takes too long, and it's pretty easy once you've done it a few times. It feels too much like a chore now imo. Same thing is happening to other maps too, it's getting routine. The solution is more maps. But I'm at a loss how to approach them, how to add new challenges that do not require 15 people, but are still challenging. Maybe the main problem is the turrets. They suck
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#12
06-07-2010, 02:01 AM
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What we need are new objects.
Like the current electric walls, but on a timer, on for 2 secs, off for 2 secs. Miss your window and you get emp'd and stall, putting you at risk of crashing or getting hit by nearby turrets. Some sort of trigger would be good too, in that you have to land on a base to open a door, or something. Just simple race-orientated items that make co-op less about blasting turrets to Hades and back and more about working together and co-ordination.
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#13
06-07-2010, 02:25 AM
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I had an inkling of an idea, and tested it.. and it works!
It turns out you can remove one bomb from a team-TBD map, and the game still runs! So now we can make "coop" maps that are TBD-type, where players can die and respawn, and perhaps where the other side is staffed by expert bots (dunno what the max limit on expert bots is). So now in addition to the challenge of permanently dealing with turrets, you would have the challenge of dealing with a constantly respawning bot army. Sound fun?
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#16
06-07-2010, 11:37 AM
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I definitely think we should give a respawning-type coop map a chance though. I think it could be a lot of fun and would only widen the potential for this game mode.
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#17
06-07-2010, 12:51 PM
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At first we used ball, then tbd. Both didn't really work. Ball stops when the ball is left alone for a few seconds, and tbd needs at least 3 bombs dropped. On top of that, respawns make things way too easy. Turrets don't respawn, so you can spam a turret halfway down, respawn, then spamkill the turret, and repeat.
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#19
06-07-2010, 10:05 PM
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Remember, the enemy bots would re-spawn too. And not necessarily over their base.
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Linear Mode
