Biplane Buff has Left Acid loopies with no role in competitive matches

[CCN]

They have such range that the fast swoopy plane can't get in close combat without dying, 1 quick burst and its over (and without emp and abuse of emp they will ALWAYS get in that range).

So You have a loopy that can't get close as it's job. Its terrible.


Buff it. Change the ranged damage to more, make the single missile do more damage or something. The acid is strong enough but there is no follow up anymore, making it useless.

Biplanes, just rape them hard.

Killed the use of acid loopy.

[DiogenesDog]

Meh, I think you're crazy. Acid Loopy's strength was always as a team player. If you can't get quite as man kills personally, I don't think that's such a horrible thing. Your role is to make enemy players scared to go through chokes and to soften guys up so they're easier for your whole team. that's still extremely valuable, and this biplane buff doesn't really touch it.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by DiogenesDog

Meh, I think you're crazy. Acid Loopy's strength was always as a team player. If you can't get quite as man kills personally, I don't think that's such a horrible thing. Your role is to make enemy players scared to go through chokes and to soften guys up so they're easier for your whole team. that's still extremely valuable, and this biplane buff doesn't really touch it.

I palyed a lot of acid loopy, and while that is a part of the role, making planes scared to go through a choke, that is not its only role. It can't easily go behind the scenes or ever get in close combat, or even medium range combat with a competent HC around.

My style of acid loopy managed to peak at #1 on the ladder (call it inflated rank but it shows the effectiveness of the style). Take away basically half of the play style of a good acid loopy (swooping, picking off weak planes, getting good angles for a run by - which is what has happened with the now super powered HC and even Recoiless/DF) and what you have is a weak team player where i'd rather have a whale.

I think i've seen you play acid on occasion before? Have you played much of it after the patch, given your post I can't imagine it tbqh.

thinking it through, and playing it, emp is still strong vs biplane, but maybe thats a balance consideration. Emp is basically the biggest balance buster but since it's there to entice new players I doubt it will change.

[poofighter24]

+10000000000

[Radium]

Originally Posted by poofighter24

+10000000000

+1 .

[Clapon]

Originally Posted by DiogenesDog

Meh, I think you're crazy. Acid Loopy's strength was always as a team player. If you can't get quite as man kills personally, I don't think that's such a horrible thing. Your role is to make enemy players scared to go through chokes and to soften guys up so they're easier for your whole team. that's still extremely valuable, and this biplane buff doesn't really touch it.

I love you CCN like totally homo but i totally agree with Dio here bud.

[Goose]

I concur with what has been said in this thread

[agouti]

+1 to CCN and DiogenesDog, except people seem to be over-inflating how much biplanes have been buffed.

They got just over 10% range boost to close range cannon. Not that much, really. And that is pretty unimportant for HC.

an extra 32% damage (from 50% to 66%) to the secondary hit on the heavy cannon is big, but hardly "super powered" (and before anyone posts that 66%-50% = 16%, that's not how percentages work)

close range cannon going through people is pretty huge buff, but acid loopies were never the sole crowd control plane anyway.

What the OP is suggesting is the classic case of power creep - buff one thing, which (appears) to make something else inferior, so buff it - but now all the other planes are inferior, better buff them.

If you think the new biplane is overpowered, say so. It's role has changed, but buffing the acid loopy is NOT the answer. Either acid loopies are underpowered, and have been since before the last patch, or biplanes are now overpowered.

[nobodyhome]

@agouti, those aren't the only changes made to biplane. the one that's making HC a lot stronger is the 5% less afterburner energy usage.

@ccn, you have to remember that since the HC was recently buffed, people are using it a lot more. give the buff a few days to settle down and people will use HC less often. i reckon that you'd feel a lot less emasculated if there were an average of 1-2 HCs per game rather than 3-4.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by agouti

+1 to CCN and DiogenesDog, except people seem to be over-inflating how much biplanes have been buffed.

They got just over 10% range boost to close range cannon. Not that much, really. And that is pretty unimportant for HC.

an extra 32% damage (from 50% to 66%) to the secondary hit on the heavy cannon is big, but hardly "super powered" (and before anyone posts that 66%-50% = 16%, that's not how percentages work)

close range cannon going through people is pretty huge buff, but acid loopies were never the sole crowd control plane anyway.

What the OP is suggesting is the classic case of power creep - buff one thing, which (appears) to make something else inferior, so buff it - but now all the other planes are inferior, better buff them.

If you think the new biplane is overpowered, say so. It's role has changed, but buffing the acid loopy is NOT the answer. Either acid loopies are underpowered, and have been since before the last patch, or biplanes are now overpowered.

Hc's got a buff last time, maybe as more people play it the balance change is more noticeable.
>_>.

But i noticed it a lot more since this patch, if I can bring myself to play more acid loopy ill pay attention to what type of Biplane is owning me, think its HC.

[agouti]

Also, on a seperate note, has the range on HC been nerfed? I was playing it before and if you are at the edges of a map at all, you can very clearly see it's full range (about 2/3rds total screen width).

I thought it used to be longer? Haven't played it much because of Ace'ing but still...

[TRUEPAiN]

+1

Loopy needs a look at because tracker is never used.

And acid players are HARDLY effective. 1vs1 acid loopy struggles!

In comparison to DF/EMP loopy, it's a godsend. Acid is like scratches, tracker is laughable!

[mlopes]

How about you still use your tactics when a biplane is not around, and adapt to the new biplane and play accordingly?

[CCN]

Originally Posted by mlopes

How about you still use your tactics when a biplane is not around, and adapt to the new biplane and play accordingly?

You havn't played acid in TBD enough to comment imo.

[tyr]

What are you smoking CCN
Of course loopies are excellent targets for biplanes, it has always been that way and it'll always be that way as long as f+d for biplane exists
I really don't understand why you're complaining because in 1v1 for recoilless the only buff is the +15% range on the secondary and dogfighter gains 1 damage per secondary bullet on top of that (WOW WHAT A HUGE BUFF), and +15% of no range = no range still. And HC wasnt modified at all (still talking for 1v1 here)
I'm not really sure what difference that makes in a duel. They can SOMETIMES maybe get a better position but that's it.

As for team fights, that's why the pierce was introduce and/or buffed, but that shouldn't be a problem for you since as Dio said, acid is a team player so you should be more or less hiding behind your explodets and bombers anyway.

Really, I don't know what you're complaining about. Acid is still as strong as ever. Tracker kinda sucks though, as some already said and I wouldn't mind seeing it buffed in some way.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by CCN

So whens your last APL? Top 100 TBD ladder appearance?
Acid play?

Do these stats give you some kind of immunity to adapt to the changes and waste your time whining instead? I suggest you try to win the next APL by whining your opponents to death.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by mlopes

Do these stats give you some kind of immunity to adapt to the changes and waste your time whining instead? I suggest you try to win the next APL by whining your opponents to death.

It means your opinion is uninformed.

[Sarah Palin]

Acid is amazing. Not only does it do a big chunk of damage but it decreases the plane's armor making subsequent attacks do 33% more damage.

An acid round reduces an Explodet to 51% effective HP, a Biplane to 48%, and a Miranda to 42%. That is, you could kill an Explodet with 10 bullets, or an acid and 5 bullets.

If you play well and "acid prep" planes for your teammates you can effectively double their firepower.

In Ball, where

1. Planes clump more
2. Planes move more predictably

Acid is almost OP. All it takes is landing a 3x or 4x acid on the enemy at the start of the round, and your team steamrolls.

The tradeoff is Acid is NOT a runner, NOT a duelist, and NEEDS a good team to finish the job on acided planes. These OP-sounding stats only work if you get your team to train their fire on each plane before that acid wears off. Of course it's a two way street - wasting acid on planes that can easily get away is bad.

As Acid I routinely get most deaths, close to fewest kills, and most assists in the game.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by CCN

It means your opinion is uninformed.

Or it means I prefer to play in {arr} servers, or other european server with decent players and a ping of 50 instead of in ladder with a ping of 180. I may not be in APL or avoiding to play in ladder due to the high pings in europe, but I've been around for quite a while now.

And more important, in altitude, as in everything in life, you're better off adapting than whining how unfair things are (which is not even the case cause biplane is now more balanced that it used to be).

[CCN]

If you don't want to discuss balance change but want to argue about how bad you are, send me a PM.


If you are really bad at this game, please stop posting in this thread about balance changes.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by CCN

If you don't want to discuss balance change but want to argue about how bad you are, send me a PM.

Leave the thread for good and informed players.

And by informed players you mean those who whine along with you? Cause I can see a lot of people with the curriculum you are asking for, just saying the same as I do.

About the balance change, it's not the balance changes fault that you suck, and are too cocky to look at the other players and notice it.

Over and out, you can now proceed to touch yourself while you fantasize of how good you are while getting kicked in the ass by biplanes.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by mlopes

And by informed players you mean those who whine along with you? Cause I can see a lot of people with the curriculum you are asking for, just saying the same as I do.

About the balance change, it's not the balance changes fault that you suck, and are too cocky to look at the other players and notice it.

Over and out, you can now proceed to touch yourself while you fantasize of how good you are while getting kicked in the ass by biplanes.

I'm very interested in the bold. I've also played the European game (when in London) and know how weak it is generally compared to the combined game (don't know how the ball euro games standard is though).

Good People: Played Competitively/ Played Ladder and achieved a good rank at some point (Top 50 will do).

If you don't stop derailing my thread and hitting me with personal insults I will report your posts.

G'day and I hope you solve those anger issues.

[andy]

biplane buff wasnt so big.. certainly it didnt make acid useless, acid is still the best support plane for your team and one of the best bombrunners. On a sidenote game isnt balanced on 1v1 otherwise we should just ban randas/emp/biplanes.. its a 5v5 game (also if lam says its balanced on 7v7) and i dont think biplane will have a huge role in 5v5, i dont see teams using more than one biplane for sure and i still think some teams will avoid using it.
You are probably getting 2 shot by HC also when using HA and this isnt a result of the latest patch, it was implemented 2 patches ago, we can discuss about that if you wish..

[Evan20000]

CCN, mirandas are easier to hit with the heavy cannon due to their slower overall movement and get 2 shotted as well. Does this mean they aren't viable? Absolutely not.

Acid Loops is unique in being the only light plane with area control capabilities. That alone makes it worth looking at.

[A Nipple]

I think acid loopies should get a small buff, maybe increase the tracker percentage on the missiles or give them a few more missiles to shoot. the acid is nice but when you think double fire shoots emp and then their missiles kill hardddd it would be good to see a small buff. You might want to argue that emp does no damage but if you consider like 60% of the time when u emp them they take a bit of damage from hitting a wall as a result it kinda does cause damage all be it not technically.

[Evan20000]

I think Acid is fine where it is, it's just harder to play then DF so it looks weaker in comparison. However, a top acid player is infinitely more effective then a DF player in most situations.

[tgleaf]

I agree with Palin:

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

The tradeoff is Acid is NOT a runner, NOT a duelist, and NEEDS a good team to finish the job on acided planes.

I don't think Acid Loopy needs a buff. It would be awesome, since that's my go to plane, but I don't think it's needed. Then again, I haven't spent a ton of time with biplanes in competitive TBD lately, so maybe I need to take a peek.

[Stormich]

Acid loopy does 240 DPS on an acided plane, the same as DF, it has tracker meaning you can do whatever you want with the plane while still killing your opponent. I know it's a bit harder now that there's more biplanes but the usefulness of an acid loopy still far outweighs the slight loss of killing capability.

[A Nipple]

yea acids hardly crying out for a buff I think my suggestions were really based on if there was one tbh! when it comes to a buff its more CCN loopy skills that need a buff...hehe

[hurripilot]

Acid is a sick perk. It's never been very good against a Biplane 1v1, that's always been Double Fire's role. However, by it's very nature acid is not a 1v1 perk.

I know exactly why CCN feels the Biplane buff so badly, he doesn't play acid well. CCN's strategy for acid is to run head first into the largest group of enemies he can find and spam D. Now this used to work okay when most of the planes he was flying against were larger craft like Explos and Bombers that have a hard time tracking a small target like a Loopy, but since more people have been using Biplane, he finds himself amidst small, hard to hit targets that are more agile and can get a bead on him more easily.

For you, CCN, this means either re-examining your strategy with Acid or finding a new plane that's more suited to your aggressive style of play. Also, listen to nobo. The Biplane buff is brand new so of course a lot of people are going to try it out. Once the hype is over the number of Biplane players will go down again.

[elxir]

Acid is already possibly the most powerful weapon in the game, I don't see how buffing another plane could have changed this.

[DMCM]

Bad idea.

If you buff Acid then you got mirandas complaining.

If you buff mriandas to compensate, then you have... everyone else complaning



Acid is still very useful.

[Evan20000]

I agree with DM. Power creep is bad.

I think tracker could stand a buff though. While it's not useless, it's certainly underpowered.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by hurripilot

Acid is a sick perk. It's never been very good against a Biplane 1v1, that's always been Double Fire's role. However, by it's very nature acid is not a 1v1 perk.

I know exactly why CCN feels the Biplane buff so badly, he doesn't play acid well. CCN's strategy for acid is to run head first into the largest group of enemies he can find and spam D. Now this used to work okay when most of the planes he was flying against were larger craft like Explos and Bombers that have a hard time tracking a small target like a Loopy, but since more people have been using Biplane, he finds himself amidst small, hard to hit targets that are more agile and can get a bead on him more easily.

For you, CCN, this means either re-examining your strategy with Acid or finding a new plane that's more suited to your aggressive style of play. Also, listen to nobo. The Biplane buff is brand new so of course a lot of people are going to try it out. Once the hype is over the number of Biplane players will go down again.

psshhh, didn't you start DLAM?

[A Nipple]

I think I'd have to agree with hurri on the acid issue. CCN you need to up your game to PROCID!
nipnip

[CCN]

Originally Posted by A Nipple

I think I'd have to agree with hurri on the acid issue. CCN you need to up your game to PROCID!
nipnip

ill switch to dogfighter.
80% piece + 3 Planes + Ultra + FD = triple kill + more DLAM

[elxir]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I agree with DM. Power creep is bad.

I think tracker could stand a buff though. While it's not useless, it's certainly underpowered.

Tracker is heavily dependent on the specific map, which is kind of an issue. It's great in open spaces, but not so great in tighter maps where the short bursts of DF are superior.

[Sarah Palin]

I will talk ONLY about Ball as I haven't played TBD in a long time.

But in Ball, Acid does not need a buff of any kind vs double-fire. A competent acid will always be more useful than a double-fire. Even teams with two acid have been winning.

TBQH I don't really care about Acid's tracker missiles. Pretty much the only time they're worth firing is when you have an acided plane in your sights. Other times it's much better to save your energy for an acid round.

EMP has always been the "kill bip button" but even with more biplanes in ball, I don't really see EMP Double Fire as worth it.

I know exactly why CCN feels the Biplane buff so badly, he doesn't play acid well. CCN's strategy for acid is to run head first into the largest group of enemies he can find and spam D. Now this used to work okay when most of the planes he was flying against were larger craft like Explos and Bombers that have a hard time tracking a small target like a Loopy, but since more people have been using Biplane, he finds himself amidst small, hard to hit targets that are more agile and can get a bead on him more easily.

Yeah I've seen people use acid like this and I don't think it's very effective.

Rather than shooting at an existing large group, acid should shoot at where 2 or 3 planes are ABOUT TO converge.

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by CCN

psshhh, didn't you start DLAM?

Yup, but DLAM is a different philosophy from competitive gameplay, which is what I assume you were referring to when you spoke of Acid's "role" in the game. Every plane has an equal role in the DLAM lifestyle, that of bearing it's pilot into what will assuredly be an instant, glorious, and chest-haired death.

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by CCN

ill switch to dogfighter.
80% piece + 3 Planes + Ultra + FD = triple kill + more DLAM

nice choice =]