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#82
09-17-2010, 06:21 PM
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#83
09-17-2010, 06:24 PM
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well another example is 2 guys that dominated ladder are miranda runners (ingbo-lasor,donk-TA), just saying even "other" randas have edge over loopy/biplane runners and that should be fixed while we're at fixing anchor
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#84
09-17-2010, 06:25 PM
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#86
09-17-2010, 06:27 PM
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#87
09-17-2010, 06:28 PM
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#89
09-17-2010, 06:30 PM
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Biplanes you see run often too, however thats more attributed to the fact that those people are not familiar with the metagame. The biplane being in need of a buff is something we can all agree on, players have no incentive to use it over a loopy or miranda to run the bomb.
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#90
09-17-2010, 06:32 PM
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first of all, donk decreased in rating so much when he switched to trick because he was playing a plane he was unfamiliar with, not because his plane is overpowered. if i started playing anchor in tbd ladder, I would drop a **** ton too. I'm sure no one would argue at that point that trick is op.
i don't really understand why there hasta be a perennial qq'ing session over anchor just because people seem to have a mindblock when tryina learn how to d that plane. that said, the only mobility nerf i see as not out of the question is a shortening of anchor length. if your gonna nerf something, nerf mikesol imo. on a side note, i use all forms of flexloop depending on map/mood with my fav being acid, and i do believe it is arguably the best bom runner in the game as well as being an effective counter (in all forms) to anchor running.
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#92
09-17-2010, 06:41 PM
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Actually, at the moment I'm having trouble thinking of a single team that has either of the other two randas regularly running the bomb. Sure it can be a great runner, and Ingbo's a great player. That's not a valid argument for saying randa running as a whole is OP imo.
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#93
09-17-2010, 06:42 PM
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JonOFFon = Donk
I am a full time student and a semi-pro poker player which means every summer I have a lot of time to commit to video games. That being said, I started playing ladder on April 30th of this year and as you all know I have been obsessed. Since I rarely played Altitude when I first got the game I can safely say that that majority of my 800+ hours of play on my [TC]donk account, 150 hours in a smurf account, about 20 hours on nips smurf account have come in the last 5 months. My nearly 1000 hours of altitude in 5 months is the result of such imbalanced games. After my first 50 hours of game play I switched to TA and besides having to ace, and the initial time period of trickster that’s all I've played. I feel that no matter what plane I dedicated my time to I could be #1 in ladder after that much commitment in such a short period (as from looking at everyone else's hours it seems very unlikely anyone has had such condensed play). The argument kuja made about me dropping to 10th and then back to 1st in a week is true but the info around it is not. I am obviously going to drop from a 3100 rating to much lower when I use a plane I do not practice with much. This does not support an anti-TA movement because iv spent more then 10 times the amount of time as a TA then trickster
I grant you that TA makes newbs look foolish but I rarely play new players. I have got to a point in altitude where unless a game is all pros or close to it I don’t enjoy the game very much as I've just played too much and the lack of sophistication is tedious. Only time I don't play ladder is when there is a scrim on; and scrims are against other pros. So all the stuff about official doesn’t apply to me or other top pros (Mikesol, Tmic) because like you have said, TA is hard to master and (especially with recent energy nerf) public games are not usually ruined by TAs (just as much so as all other planes). As we have been rightfully called many times altitude ladder is a bunch of elitists who constantly make new players feel bad about being there, usually resulting in them being kicked or banned when placed on the wrong pros team. This means that the ladder games are filled with people who have been constantly exposed to TA and know the strategy used by all top TAs and should be able to counter. This is a list of players I feel can counter TA very well and if you play against them (when they are on) you must have a good team or it can be near impossible to TA bomb: Void, ingbo, sin, kuja, eso, mled, mata, ccns lag, sky, nip,vipr, andy, onix, smuch (sry pros i missed). What you may realize is that these are all the top ladder players. A direct coloration can be drawn from these top players skill level and the amount of time spent in ladder. This means that the more time you spend in ladder the better you are at combatting TA. Most of these players don’t usually complain about TA because once you have it figured out it makes the games exciting as TAs run in high level games. Pro gamers always find the premium strategy if you give them long enough, and in pro games TAs run. 2 TAs usually get killed. If TA was just a pure OP plane then a 5 TA team would destroy. This is not the case, every TA after the initial 1 is a detriment to the team. Mikesol and I are a perfect example of this as we struggle to win games when playing good players when we both TA on the same team. I’d say we are the best examples when trying to prove TA is OP and the fact that only 1 can play seems to make an obvious counter to TA (besides the forum based, political attack) to train your own good TA runner. This is why this whole debate is so funny to me because in many of the TC vs FLB (which im sure is the reason for this intense “nerf TA debate” ) scrims that have occurred lately, TMIC plays TA on the other team. How can you complain that an OP TA is the reason for imbalanced games when you have one yourself? LOL This is why these forums are funny in how they are similar to real world politics because it’s the exactly how real world politics work. Someone gets in power and everything is going swimmingly. The second something comes along that threatens that person’s power they try to discredit the threat. This is exactly what’s happening, after months of battling FLB as the leader of FU and coming to the realization that no matter how hard I tried, 5 pros is really needed to beat 5 pros. So I disbanded FU and joined a strong TC as I felt we had a good chance to upset the existing powerhouses. (L*, sammich, FLB, IL) Now it has not been a week since a team finally beat FLB and already another nerf TA rant has arrived. My final summary supporting why no nerf is needed: 1) Different combinationsof strong players using HC, acid, emp, trickster, bomber spam, thermo are very effective against TA 2) Team work can easily beat TA 3) A good TA can effectively stop another TA (even when one is more skilled because of lack of speed due to bomb carrying) 4) Don’t complain of a plane being OP when you have that same plane on your team 5) TAs don’t just have smooth sailing to victory( I personally grab every single bomb I can and try 100%, any day I go on ladder not feeling like playing I get crushed! Constantly battling spam, kuja rants, lag and just skilled play makes the game fun and challenging. 6) Don’t nerf a plane because old strategy is being beat, create new strategy! 7) Ladder win % is still only 53% for #1 ranked ladder player (dosent sound too imba to me) 8) When only 1 of every 5 players can play a certain plane at time, a huge diversity in team structure will always be available (without TAs and other randa, 5 heavies would be effective strategy, causing full-clan spam pushes being the main way to bomb). Having TAs in game create diversity and diversity is what keep people coming back for hours of dynamic play 9) Instead of sitting in forums for hours discussing how to put restrictions on winning players while those same players are in ladder getting even better, go and play! 10) I would say on 90% of my runs (with the exception of some well-practiced drops and team pushes) I think to myself, so-and-so could have stopped that run but made a bad decision. Mikesol is the greatest TA of all time, creating a style, writing a guide, mentoring me by example and just an all-around classy guy. I think he will be the first to agree that it is not any of the moves alone (double warp, warp then anchor, double anchor that makes a good TA). that cause TAs strength. It is the ability (through flight path) to create opportunities in movement and timing and make quick decisions on when to utilize these options while using reflexes to dodge enemy fire while keeping a strong mental note of who’s alive, and where everyone is. This with high game awareness is what creates TAs strength, not any of the cheap gimmicks that are actually quite predictable. TAs are obiously going to be scrutinized more then other planes just from the amount of stuff that points attention to them. Every time I hit, [TC]donk has done 31 damage, and observers in ladder are always watching the bomb runner. So constant exposure means players are seeing the strengths of TA non-stop. This is why players like VOID who play only defense but absolutely rape, go unknown to most observers and even players in game. A perfect demonstration of why a nerf is unfair is because for months I played, running by myself into groups of 4, dropping bombs from a distance instead of dunking (and having bombs blocked), and choosing to nuke turrets over going on good chance runs. All plays which constantly put me under scrutiny for playing bad were just me practicing slightly unusual play. Now that I have somewhat mastered all my techniques and am putting them to use in game. TA is again OP. After all of my points, 1 fact still stands strong, there are 814 ladder players playing 15 planes and 2 players playing 1 of them is not an OP plane, you are just not adapting to an effective strategy. Just once Kuja can you say gg Donk, or n1 because you have never given me credit for a single thing ever and this just seems like a personal attack rather then actually trying to improve the game. The true pro of the game is UFO who has the highest ratings if you add ball and tbd ratings. He knows the game the best, is the best IMO. He obviously knew I did something differently then other players because when I was still newb he told me I would be the best TA. So if you really want to balance game, ask the guy who knows the game best. UFO for prez. If UFO ever says TA is OP then I will 100% agree with it and give my full support (because of he is fair, intelligent, played forever, knows all aspects of game) but until then I am strongly against it. By attacking a plane when it beats you isn't setting the game up to be fair, its just removing competition as it becomes effective. TO THE CREATORS: think about the message you are sending, play for 1000 hours and finally get good enough to win, then have KUJA attack you and get your plan nerfed. Fun game guys! Last edited by JonOFFon; 09-17-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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#94
09-17-2010, 06:45 PM
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well i'm just saying on my personal experience how i feel.. also donk is great player too but this thread is bout how his plane is OP at running (can say same for ingbo :P). i didnt even want nerf for anchor but if that should happen i want it for all perks at least a bit
edit: i agree with donk, also putting that much effort into playing that plane should be awarded even if its slightly op .. and TA allready got nerfed in past and nobody complained bout it till donk appeared, and u (flb) had tmic who was good too ,at that time, as only anchor runner cos mike was afk. (sorry other TA i dont know ya) Last edited by Cloud; 09-17-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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#95
09-17-2010, 06:46 PM
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We have to use an anchor bomb as well because it is so over powered the only solution is to fight fire with fire. The fact that one plane can cause so much impact on the game is proof enough its power is absurd.
edit: also lets try to stay on topic, I will probably be making a buff biplane thread in the very near future anyway. Last edited by Kuja900; 09-17-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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#96
09-17-2010, 07:07 PM
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#97
09-17-2010, 07:09 PM
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#98
09-17-2010, 07:10 PM
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#99
09-17-2010, 07:11 PM
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I am a full time student and a semi-pro poker player which means every summer I have a lot of time to commit to video games. That being said, I started playing ladder on April 30th of this year and as you all know I have been obsessed. Since I rarely played Altitude when I first got the game I can safely say that that majority of my 800+ hours of play on my [TC]donk account, 150 hours in a smurf account, about 20 hours on nips smurf account have come in the last 5 months. My nearly 1000 hours of altitude in 5 months is the result of such imbalanced games. After my first 50 hours of game play I switched to TA and besides having to ace, and the initial time period of trickster that’s all I've played. I feel that no matter what plane I dedicated my time to I could be #1 in ladder after that much commitment in such a short period (as from looking at everyone else's hours it seems very unlikely anyone has had such condensed play). The argument kuja made about me dropping to 10th and then back to 1st in a week is true but the info around it is not. I am obviously going to drop from a 3100 rating to much lower when I use a plane I do not practice with much. This does not support an anti-TA movement because iv spent more then 10 times the amount of time as a TA then trickster
The reason you achieved the number 1 rank is such a short period of time is because of the abuse of time anchor which is imbalanced. If mikesol cared for ladder, which he does not, I can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt he would have the top rank. The anchor just has such an unparalleled influence on the game. I grant you that TA makes newbs look foolish but I rarely play new players. I have got to a point in altitude where unless a game is all pros or close to it I don’t enjoy the game very much as I've just played too much and the lack of sophistication is tedious. Only time I don't play ladder is when there is a scrim on; and scrims are against other pros. So all the stuff about official doesn’t apply to me or other top pros (Mikesol, Tmic) because like you have said, TA is hard to master and (especially with recent energy nerf) public games are not usually ruined by TAs (just as much so as all other planes). The fact that a lot of the anchors dont play pubbies does not change the fact that for the general public let alone the competitive community, where the story is the same. It is just far too effective even to the point of it out classing each and every other bomb running option. If an anchor was to play in public servers its undisputed the results would be comical, the argument that "we can but we don't" is pointless because you can and the fact that you can is not acceptable. As we have been rightfully called many times altitude ladder is a bunch of elitists who constantly make new players feel bad about being there, usually resulting in them being kicked or banned when placed on the wrong pros team. This means that the ladder games are filled with people who have been constantly exposed to TA and know the strategy used by all top TAs and should be able to counter. There is no hard counter to anchor and your more then aware the average ladder player is more then pathetic against time anchor, even the more experienced ones can be stalled long enough to be taken down by whatever support the anchor's team can provide, no matter how meager. This is a list of players I feel can counter TA very well and if you play against them (when they are on) you must have a good team or it can be near impossible to TA bomb: Absolutely untrue, the fact that your able to consistently change the outcome of games to the point of achieving a 3100 rating when the number 2 spot is only at a 2500 rating is proof enough that anchor can carry lesser players. That rating alone guarantees you the lowest rated in the room teammates and that still was not a problem. The argument of you being "that much better then everyone else" that you are portraying is an absolute crock. Void, ingbo, sin, kuja, eso, mled, mata, ccns lag, sky, nip,vipr, andy, onix, smuch (sry pros i missed). What you may realize is that these are all the top ladder players. A direct coloration can be drawn from these top players skill level and the amount of time spent in ladder. This means that the more time you spend in ladder the better you are at combatting TA. Most of these players don’t usually complain about TA because once you have it figured out it makes the games exciting as TAs run in high level games. These players absolutely complain about TA. Void, ingbo, myself, sin, smush, ccn, 6 of the players you listed so far have posted in this very thread expressing their opinion of anchor bomb running being too strong. Pro gamers always find the premium strategy if you give them long enough, and in pro games TAs run. 2 TAs usually get killed. If TA was just a pure OP plane then a 5 TA team would destroy. This is not the case, every TA after the initial 1 is a detriment to the team. Mikesol and I are a perfect example of this as we struggle to win games when playing good players when we both TA on the same team. I’d say we are the best examples when trying to prove TA is OP and the fact that only 1 can play seems to make an obvious counter to TA (besides the forum based, political attack) to train your own good TA runner. Anchor has been considered overpowered for almost a year now, especially in clan matches. The only reason this issue was not further addressed until now was because mikesol went inactive and there was no on around abusing the issue. The fact that a completely new "premium strategy" would be required to stop anchor is silly. What other plane requires a completely original strategy to stop? The only such strategy that exists is using an anchor yourself. This is why this whole debate is so funny to me because in many of the TC vs FLB (which im sure is the reason for this intense “nerf TA debate” ) scrims that have occurred lately, TMIC plays TA on the other team. How can you complain that an OP TA is the reason for imbalanced games when you have one yourself? LOL Fighting fire with fire is the only real solution, metagaming is metagaming. This is why these forums are funny in how they are similar to real world politics because it’s the exactly how real world politics work. Someone gets in power and everything is going swimmingly. The second something comes along that threatens that person’s power they try to discredit the threat. This is exactly what’s happening, after months of battling FLB as the leader of FU and coming to the realization that no matter how hard I tried, 5 pros is really needed to beat 5 pros. So I disbanded FU and joined a strong TC as I felt we had a good chance to upset the existing powerhouses. (L*, sammich, FLB, IL) Now it has not been a week since a team finally beat FLB and already another nerf TA rant has arrived. The nerf TA rant has been around since mikesol as I said earlier people stopped complaining when there was no one around pressing the issue. Last edited by Kuja900; 09-17-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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#101
09-17-2010, 07:37 PM
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#103
09-17-2010, 07:41 PM
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#104
09-17-2010, 07:53 PM
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So Fight Fire with Fire
I am a big basketball player so a simple analogy comes to mind. When Shaq is on the court, ripping it up, you don't send out Nash to guard him, no matter how skilled, hes going to get killed. You send out your own Center who can fight muscle with muscle. Seems so standard and straight forward. Don't tell Shaq he can't dunk, or make players 300 lbs carry weights, just get your own center. Problem solved.
The reason you achieved the number 1 rank is such a short period of time is because of the abuse of time anchor which is imbalanced. If mikesol cared for ladder, which he does not, I can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt he would have the top rank. The anchor just has such an unparalleled influence on the game. As your teammate sin said, "ladder rankings benefit runners". Anyone who cares to stop and take a look can see that most of top players are runners. Other players get stuck in games with no offense because they cant run. SO all runners are OP in ladder and the best runner will usually have the top rating. Dont attack TA for this, change the ranking system for ladder if you don't like runners being rewarded for wins! Im also glad you are so sure of me losing just like a couple months ago when you in game chatted to me " never touch my bomb again you useless c.u.n.t" I grant you that TA makes newbs look foolish but I rarely play new players. I have got to a point in altitude where unless a game is all pros or close to it I don’t enjoy the game very much as I've just played too much and the lack of sophistication is tedious. Only time I don't play ladder is when there is a scrim on; and scrims are against other pros. So all the stuff about official doesn’t apply to me or other top pros (Mikesol, Tmic) because like you have said, TA is hard to master and (especially with recent energy nerf) public games are not usually ruined by TAs (just as much so as all other planes). The fact that a lot of the anchors dont play pubbies does not change the fact that for the general public let alone the competitive community, where the story is the same. It is just far too effective even to the point of it out classing each and every other bomb running option. If an anchor was to play in public servers its undisputed the results would be comical, the argument that "we can but we don't" is pointless because you can and the fact that you can is not acceptable. Let me rephrase. Any top ladder player can single handily win at pubs games (TA included). The lack of experience dealing with strong TAs makes Mike, Tmic and I appear way OP in official when no other pros are around but this happens only in the AM or at weird hours as we are in ladder when ever possible. Ban me from all pubs for all I care, lets just play competitive games. While on the topic, who here really thinks KUJA cares about your typical pub player??? As we have been rightfully called many times altitude ladder is a bunch of elitists who constantly make new players feel bad about being there, usually resulting in them being kicked or banned when placed on the wrong pros team. This means that the ladder games are filled with people who have been constantly exposed to TA and know the strategy used by all top TAs and should be able to counter. There is no hard counter to anchor and your more then aware the average ladder player is more then pathetic against time anchor, even the more experienced ones can be stalled long enough to be taken down by whatever support the anchor's team can provide, no matter how meager. Average ladder players suck against all runners. Ask any loopy or trickster runner, obv they run past newbs easily. I see you didnt comment on the section about being an elitist or kicking and banning these newbs you say you care about This is a list of players I feel can counter TA very well and if you play against them (when they are on) you must have a good team or it can be near impossible to TA bomb: Absolutely untrue, the fact that your able to consistently change the outcome of games to the point of achieving a 3100 rating when the number 2 spot is only at a 2500 rating is proof enough that anchor can carry lesser players. That rating alone guarantees you the lowest rated in the room teammates and that still was not a problem. The argument of you being "that much better then everyone else" that you are portraying is an absolute crock. Love the quote "that much better then everyone else" as it does not exist. I am just the most effective runner at the moment. Void, ingbo, sin, kuja, eso, mled, mata, ccns lag, sky, nip,vipr, andy, onix, smuch (sry pros i missed). What you may realize is that these are all the top ladder players. A direct coloration can be drawn from these top players skill level and the amount of time spent in ladder. This means that the more time you spend in ladder the better you are at combatting TA. Most of these players don’t usually complain about TA because once you have it figured out it makes the games exciting as TAs run in high level games. These players absolutely complain about TA. Void, ingbo, myself, sin, smush, ccn, 6 of the players you listed so far have posted in this very thread expressing their opinion of anchor bomb running being too strong. Besides rants "**** TA is soooo OP" when I bomb hit I rarely hear points of substance. Funny how 5 of those 6 are FLB. (dont think FLB players are controlled by you at all or anything) Pro gamers always find the premium strategy if you give them long enough, and in pro games TAs run. 2 TAs usually get killed. If TA was just a pure OP plane then a 5 TA team would destroy. This is not the case, every TA after the initial 1 is a detriment to the team. Mikesol and I are a perfect example of this as we struggle to win games when playing good players when we both TA on the same team. I’d say we are the best examples when trying to prove TA is OP and the fact that only 1 can play seems to make an obvious counter to TA (besides the forum based, political attack) to train your own good TA runner. Anchor has been considered overpowered for almost a year now, especially in clan matches. The only reason this issue was not further addressed until now was because mikesol went inactive and there was no on around abusing the issue. The fact that a completely new "premium strategy" would be required to stop anchor is silly. What other plane requires a completely original strategy to stop? The only such strategy that exists is using an anchor yourself. Ancor is the best runner against pros, theres do doubt, thats just how the game works at a Meta level. TAs are usually bottom of kill score meaning you are constantly shorthanded. In these recent games that you are accrediting our wins to only my TA in the FLB vs TC series, you are forgetting the constant out-maned harasses the rest of TC wards off on my behalf. You didn't comment on the 2 TA's + are useless but selective memory is understandable. Is it not "premium strategy if its working"? I thought thats what premium strategy meant. So you don't new strategy to evolve, just keep playing heavy back and forth altitude? The other strategies are more obvious and hence, more easily fought. A huge part of TAs strength comes from players lack of experience playing against it. Meaning it is not an issue against pros. This is why this whole debate is so funny to me because in many of the TC vs FLB (which im sure is the reason for this intense “nerf TA debate” ) scrims that have occurred lately, TMIC plays TA on the other team. How can you complain that an OP TA is the reason for imbalanced games when you have one yourself? LOL Fighting fire with fire is the only real solution, metagaming is metagaming. DO IT DO IT DO IT This is why these forums are funny in how they are similar to real world politics because it’s the exactly how real world politics work. Someone gets in power and everything is going swimmingly. The second something comes along that threatens that person’s power they try to discredit the threat. This is exactly what’s happening, after months of battling FLB as the leader of FU and coming to the realization that no matter how hard I tried, 5 pros is really needed to beat 5 pros. So I disbanded FU and joined a strong TC as I felt we had a good chance to upset the existing powerhouses. (L*, sammich, FLB, IL) Now it has not been a week since a team finally beat FLB and already another nerf TA rant has arrived. The nerf TA rant has been around since mikesol as I said earlier people stopped complaining when there was no one around pressing the issue. Cool story bro. Check out the word, "another" TA rant, not the same one. Seems like you cut out a lot of the other stuff I brought in my post, so make sure you guys read the rest!!!! Last edited by JonOFFon; 09-17-2010 at 08:28 PM.
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#105
09-17-2010, 07:55 PM
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#107
09-17-2010, 08:02 PM
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I do feel anchor could be nerfed a tad but not as much as I have seen from some of the posts. The reason why anchor seems so dominate in ladder is because of the teamwork of the other team.
When fLb played FU in the FFL finals kuja, we did not have that much of a problem because of all of us were accustomed to our plane comps and our play styles. Therefore it was much more natural to coordinate defenses to stop Donk from pwning. In ladder as people have mentioned before, we don't know what players we will get until the match starts and we are not used to playing with each other on a regular basis. It truly is the defending team's teamwork that is essential to stopping an anchor, and yes it can be done.
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#108
09-17-2010, 08:04 PM
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#109
09-17-2010, 08:06 PM
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Above average teamwork is required to stop any top notch bomb runner. I came onto the altitude gaming scene when BG1 was starting to become inactive but I saw some games that he bomb ran for. He was a force to be reckoned with and the other team needed to have excellent team work to stop him. In every game, there are certain players, the best players, who utilize perks/weapons/planes etc. and make the other team need to play at a higher level.
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#110
09-17-2010, 08:07 PM
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#111
09-17-2010, 08:13 PM
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Last edited by mikesol; 09-17-2010 at 09:12 PM.
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#114
09-17-2010, 08:42 PM
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#115
09-17-2010, 08:42 PM
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Agreed to mikesol and nipple. I am not against a bit of a nerf however people must realize that the nerf should be very minor as the smallest nerf can overall affect the balance of play dramatically. 1.5x energy use and 1 second cd is way over the top.
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#116
09-17-2010, 08:53 PM
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#117
09-17-2010, 08:55 PM
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#118
09-17-2010, 08:57 PM
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well both of our posts are very on point and short so why dont yall respond to them instead of writing essays on the subject for each post u make?
Tbh i read the first 2 kujas and donks but now theres just way too much TLDR edit: this also seems to be way personal for a lot of the people in this discussion which is uncalled for. I do feel that its imba and thats what i would want to discuss i like both mike and donk. Last edited by Ingbo; 09-17-2010 at 09:01 PM.
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#119
09-17-2010, 09:05 PM
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"I'm not sure I even understand what your first sentence is saying. Ignoring that, is it wrong that one plane is better at something than others? Should it be the case that every plane can be an equivalent bomb runner or an equivalent defender? Not really. Your public server games that you speak of don't seem to come from personal experience. In fact, it simply looks like you're raging because TC pwned you guys in a scrim... From my personal experience in public servers - playing anchor is definitely not a sure way to win unless my team is at the same skill level as the other team. I often end up not playing anchor altogether in public servers because of the fact it's simply not useful without any support."
Listen I am not raging because "TC pwned us in a scrim." I encouraged nipple to start the last anchor thread months ago, the loss to TC is merely a reminder. Im not saying every bomb runner needs to be even I am however saying one plane should not vastly out class the rest. No other method of bomb carrying is as influential and effective, its not even close. Its true any experienced player will do insane in pubbies with like a 30-3 ratio, however the time anchor is the only perceived imbalance that persists when one enters the competitive levels. "False. There are plenty of ways to counter anchor. People just haven't mastered them because there are so few good anchors to play against. I guarantee you if there were say 15 good anchors - we wouldn't even be having this talk. Meta games change. People find new strategies and try new things. In a few months people might be accusing another plane of being incredibly op because some people have managed to figure out a whole new plane style with a plane." I said hard counter, not light counter there is a distinction. Its true we would not be having this talk if there were 15 good anchors. Because then every team would have one. It still would be horribly unbalanced and completely unfair to just make every other bomb running method obsolete but I doubt anyone would make a thread about it. I have yet to see any "anchor counter" effectively put in place and even so only teams with experience working together (e.g not pubbies or random ladder made teams) could perform them. This is not starcraft, the game has nowhere near the same level of manipulatible mechanics. "You're ignoring the fact that ingbo, flight, ufo, etc have also been at the number one spot. Donk has clearly mastered the art of playing with different team-mates and learning how to change anchor tactics with various players. Perhaps he is simply better at working with a team than you. Maybe if you didn't rage 24/7 and insult half the players on your team they might play better and you might be number 1. Just saying." I am not ignoring that fact at all. Also I will address the point you made addressing my first point here. I am stating the fact that his rating was so much higher then the next top spot because of his use of an overpowered plane. He is the only player to achieve that and he is the only player to reach that spot with time anchor. Its not that hes better then everybody its just that his medium is too strong. Mikesol you are normally above personal attacks but I suppose I will have to address this. You barely play ladder. I don't think I have ever been in a ladder team with you and if I have its been over a half year. Consequently you do not see my team's team chat. I am not just raging at players, I never do that purely. I am always providing advice and things that they should be doing differently. The harsh tone helps me get my point across quickly as I do not have time to elaborate. I do not rage at people without informing them of what they are doing wrong, provided someone else hasn't, and telling them what they should do differently in my opinion. "Fair point. However, consider that you, ingbo, sin, and void are all on fLb and weren't nearly as raging until you got beat by TC. Nonetheless, you all are entitled to your own opinions and I feel that many of the others aren't simply raging because they lost." The loss to T.C. may have refreshed the issue but we all were quite vocal about our opinions about time anchor before hand. The issue as I said earlier went dead for a while as there was no one pushing the button when you went inactive. "Yes anchor was considered op. Then it got hit with 4 nerfs. Then people stopped whining about it. It's not as if I completely left the game once those nerfs hit. Around the time I went inactive - Donk, Tmic, and Elixir were all picking up the plane. I remember teaching them various tricks and watching them play. When I left - a whole bunch more popped up. Once again, I'd reiterate that your complaints only occur when you start to lose." There are many reasons people stopped whining about it, the nerfs not being one of them. At that time there was no competitive medium. APL was not going on and then ladder came out, which you did not actively play. Public servers are carefree and for the large part people wont notice or care about imbalances there. But once theres something at stake like rating or leagues people do. So with you not playing ladder and no league going on there was no reason for anyone to push the envelope. In addition there is no denying the skill threshold of anchor. Those players you mentioned at the time were not at a level to cause complaints. The fact that this plane at a certain point is capable of completely imbalancing the game is the issue. Just see the last anchor thread my complaints have been around for months and nipples complaints only stopped when an anchor of the caliber he was whining about joined his team. "No idea what this even means. I will say this: Back when ACE was around they had no issue decimating us even with time anchor. We *barely* managed to beat them in our 3 game match against them at the height of time anchor. As much as you might hate them or rage against them - they were easily a better team than fLb (even with your wonderful cheating of people spectating and announcing when you should push and when you should stay back). I feel like there is still the option for a team to crush sammich or whatnot - if they learn how to work together effectively. I also feel like we've barely touched upon the possibilities that could be achieved in true professional play. If I had time I feel like I could come up with tons of tactical positions and tricks for the team - but I'm just a casual player. " Now you are just being spiteful as this is completely irrelevant to the thread at hand. Every time ACE beat fLbSS there were circumstances e.g key players being unavailable. They were not a better team then fLb they lost the summer league and we had activity issues in the following league. We do not cheat and nobody asked apathy to do what he was doing and no one was listening to him either. "People stopped complaining because it was deemed to be fairer at the time. I did not just leave the game once the nerfs happened (as I said earlier)." This is true however as I mentioned earlier you entered into no competitive avenues so people had nothing to base their complaints from.
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#120
09-17-2010, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by Kuja900; 09-17-2010 at 09:09 PM.
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Linear Mode
