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| Map Making Discuss everything related to creating new levels here. |
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#5
10-12-2010, 06:46 AM
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I have an extra account sitting around from when I bought the game a second time just to get it on Steam ._.
I'd be willing to put that account in as some sort of prize for a map contest, not that anyone making maps won't already have the game, but maybe for giving it to a friend or something. 
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#8
10-12-2010, 08:54 PM
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#9
10-30-2010, 02:17 PM
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@lamster, are you still with us? I'd like to enter the contest. More information about the contest is appreciated.
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#11
11-02-2010, 04:58 AM
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Sorry for the delay. Here's the current plan:
Every month we will announce a theme (for example, official ball map) along with some guidance on what makes a ball map eligible for official status. Map makers have until the end of the month to design and refine map templates (all gameplay elements in place but no graphics/image work). We will encourage playtesting on a "map contest" server each weekend to refine gameplay. At the end of the month we will choose 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place maps (based strictly on gameplay -- no consideration for graphics) and award community points or full version keys to the winners. In parallel (starting the second month) artists can choose previous winning gameplay-only maps to graphically theme. Artists should announce their intent on the map contest thread to allow the possibility of collaboration, and so other artists know it might be more productive to skin a different map (though there will be no "dibs" -- artists can compete if they prefer). Skinned maps should maintain the gameplay elements from the original map (e.g. only very MINOR tweaks to collision polys and special object placements) but add graphical polish so that the maps can become official. At the end of each month, exceptional skinned maps will be rewarded, and some will hopefully become official. A few details remain to be worked out (how will users upload in-progress maps they'd like tested on the official map contest server, when will we playtest, etc) but this is the basic outline. Please post feedback and suggestions for incorporation into the official post tomorrow.
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#13
11-02-2010, 06:16 AM
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Incidentally - my server "prose only" is currently home to a bunch of test maps by various users. People can send me their maps at mikesol@gmail.com and I'll upload them within a day for people to play out and test with others.
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#14
11-05-2010, 03:06 AM
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I think having the month-by-month bit might be far too tight for most people, I know it would be for me ... at any rate, it will definitely exclude anyone (from the graphical portion) who isn't a professional, technical-art-school-trained artist. If that's your aim, well, more power to you... I know I was working / have been working on and off on my map for a few months, of course I'm just a hobbyist and pick techniques up as I go along as best I can. Of course, the rewards seem scant at best. Community points? An extra key for a game they already have? I get the feeling that the only people who would be entering were people who were working on maps already before the contest was even an idea. I seriously doubt this plan as-is is going to attract more people to participate.
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#15
11-05-2010, 04:00 AM
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Edit: understood on the limitations of the monthly schedule. We can scrap this for a more free-flowing schedule that looks to reward finished compositions (whether phase I or II) whatever their theme whenever they're done.
The primary idea is to streamline the process that leads to great maps by breaking it in two phases: gameplay and art. In my experience, many maps struggle in one of two places: 1) Lack of play-testing. Good maps require extensive community testing and revisions. It's almost impossible to simply create a great map on a blank slate. Many talented map makers do not have the technical background or community connections to get their map on a server and collect sufficient play-test feedback for successful iterations. By giving artists a platform to test and revise map blueprints before committing to graphics (which are time-consuming and difficult to modify) we hope to ensure that they direct their talents to canvases with proven, great gameplay. 2) Lack of artistic skills. Many good map designers have no artistic ability or lack the skills, tools, and experience required to beautifully showcase their design. The hope was that artists (or aspiring artists) who weren't necessarily interested in working with the map editor could choose among the proven gameplay templates from phase I of the contest and apply their skills to create beautiful, complete compositions. What kind of rewards would interest you? In past contests we've offered cash prizes but that seemed strangely counter-productive: the winners mostly asked for keys instead of cash. We could offer A) cash B) community recognition C) new custom skin design for plane of your choice to exceptional art contributors D) (your idea here)? Any other ideas for prizes that would interest you? I think for phase-I contributors (0-graphics gameplay templates) the contest process itself will already be relatively rewarding (designing maps without graphics actually isn't too terribly time consuming, iteration testing and tweaking can be tough but also fun if it's organized for you, and it's very rewarding to have a great new map to play on when you're done). For these contributions I think keys, community points, a small cash award, or community recognition would serve as the "cherry on top" and provide great incentive. Art on the other hand -- especially exceptional, stylized full-map paintings (as several members of the community have already contributed), requires a ton of painstaking and technically demanding work. I would be happy to consider larger rewards (but need your ideas) for this work.
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#16
11-05-2010, 04:11 AM
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If the community point system were developed further, I think that type of reward would be nice, but at the moment, they hold little value within the community, IMO. I think cash should be ruled out as well. Something geared specifically toward the game would work best. Custom skins sound pretty neat though ^^
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#18
11-05-2010, 04:54 AM
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I think the biggest obstacle is getting people to not only play it but also give good, constructive feedback on it after thorough play-testing. 90% of new maps get 'finished' and then just unfortunately collect dust somewhere, which is a shame because some of them are really, really good or at least have very good potential. ball_thorns comes to my mind... So far, I've had to literally beg people to come and test a map. And from personal experience, most people will come in, either go 'cool wow awesome' or 'durr this sucks' and then leave almost immediately to go play ball_football. Aside from being somewhat emotionally draining, it isn't really an effective way of play-testing anything. After having this happen to one or more maps, many map makers will just give up in disgust and stop developing. I am very much in favor of the idea of having dedicated 'map test servers' and designated test times, though I might also go a step further here and suggest that a team of dedicated testers (preferably, recognized pros from the Alty community who are enthusiastic about getting new maps out there) be assembled. This would probably require a team of 10 for TBD or 12 for ball maps. They could be volunteers, though rewarding them for their efforts would probably be a good idea, too. Quote:
To be honest, people have been telling me all along that you're rewarded with CP if your map ever goes official. I wasn't sure whether to believe them or not. Is this is the case? Anyway, Ideally, a large cash prize would be the best, but I don't know how much you'd be able to put up to finance a project like this. Even if you put up $100 for a winning entry, that would equate to each hour spent by the artist on the project earning less than a Walmart employee does just for shuffling around looking for his lost soul. Depending on how large a cash prize you're willing to offer, though, you might substitute this for some sort of consumer goods. 'Winner gets an XBOX 360' or whatever. But since each key sells for anywhere from $5-20 (depending on those sales you guys do from time to time) I dunno what's on the table here. If a larger cash prize is untenable, then I'd say a cocktail-mixture of various prizes, including a decent-sized cash prize, would be worth the effort. I've personally been short on CP for forever so I wouldn't mind more, and a custom skin sounds pretty awesome, too. (By the way, is it possible for artists to submit template skins for planes?) Regarding (2), 'community recognition', could you elaborate on what that would actually mean? Having community members go 'hey hey good job' and then go play three rounds of tbd_hills doesn't amount to much :> Last edited by silent skies; 11-05-2010 at 04:59 AM.
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#20
11-05-2010, 06:12 AM
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Personally, I love testing maps and giving feedback. I've been trying to put up every single map anyone wants tested on my server and then I gather a bunch of people to test it and critique it. If you ever need a map tested feel free to message me and I'll gather together some other elite players to test it out
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#21
11-05-2010, 06:33 AM
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Is it by any chance that server "Prose only" ?
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#22
11-05-2010, 07:49 AM
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#23
11-05-2010, 12:22 PM
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@silent skies, thank you for pointing the problems I wanted to write today. I was busy at the moment to answer in this forum yesterday.
@mikesol Somehow I can't log in the server. It kept hanging by the login bar. @Lamster A) cash A large cash won't work I guess like silent skies said. B) community recognition Well, no. C) new custom skin design for plane of your choice to exceptional art contributors I've never really cared about skins of the plane, but it does show a distinction from other players. D) (your idea here)? If there is no money, what about something cheap like T-shirts, magnets, stickers, etc. with Altitude prints on it. A small statue of a plane. A whole goodie bag! I can put it on my desk or on the pc. Or try to find a sponsor which will offer a handheld, console, netbook or something in that direction.
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#24
11-05-2010, 12:47 PM
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I keep 2 jobs as graphic designer for more than 10 years and i earn less than that per day  I see, as it is, no use for CP. I think i still have some, but never knew what to do with those... after "buying" some skins, what now? To me, the only good prize would be the money cause time is money when you have bills in the end of the month. Of course i did/will do maps for free with all the pleasure, but money kind of push would of course buy more dedication to the task. About contest timmings im ok with whatever decided. Just keep in mind we must have time to play were adicted, remember?!
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#25
11-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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There's actually a bug with the game that causes the server to crash every once in awhile. Lam is going to fix that next patch. I've restarted the server and you should be able to play again.
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#26
11-05-2010, 06:20 PM
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A small cash reward and community recognition at this point would probably be the best idea, though I must say I'm not generally a huge fan of paying community members for volunteered time. Not so sure about the custom skin idea, since it would have to be pretty nice to not affect gameplay to the point where most would just shut off skins entirely. Also, judging from experience 3D modeling can a fair amount of time... but maybe you'd be willing to spend that for the few whose maps are made official.
If you were to expand the community point system - maybe by adding a few more skins or something like a custom badge that would display when you kill others - then I could see awarding CP becoming meaningful. At the moment, it's really easy to get enough CP to buy a skin or two without putting in much effort. It would also make me happy since I have an extra 300CP that I don't know what to do with!  Maybe make a couple "super-skins," which cost a larger amount of CP than the current ones? You could then award larger CP prizes for community-oriented activity so the only real way to unlock them would be to contribute or buy a ton of accounts.
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#27
11-05-2010, 07:58 PM
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#29
11-06-2010, 04:44 AM
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Bring back Snoopy-Loopy?
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#30
11-08-2010, 02:12 PM
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Linear Mode
