Improve Ladder

gumbyy · #1 10-28-2010, 07:26 AM

Ladder is fantastically executed already (thanks nobodyhome, Maimer, eth, and everyone else involved) but I have a suggestion for improving it. As Ladder has gotten more and more popular, a few problems have shown up: a) the server is full so 14 people are watching 10 people play b) there is no one playing ladder so you have to spam everyone on your friends list to try to rustle up enough people.

I propose having a ladder that is more like a BG in World of Warcraft or the matchmaking in Halo. That is to say, rather than 4 ladders for TBD and Ball, have ONE lobby for TBD and ONE lobby for ball. As people join and matches are made, they will be taken to their own server. This would allow people to play more matches and, as a side-effect, would lessen the amount of time wasted spec chatting things like "ARGHHHH I HATE SPECCING!!!!!!!!!11111111"

I have no idea what kind of programming this would take, but, if possible, I think it would be a big step forward in terms of improving the game.

Clack clack,
Gumb[L*]y

shrode · #2 10-28-2010, 08:14 AM

That would be pretty sick, but a lot of work.

Stormich · #3 10-28-2010, 08:39 AM

Seems like a lot of coding + servers are now capped at 400 + uncapped, how would you determine which one you want to play on? Oh and also, it takes more VPS resources

mikesol · #4 10-28-2010, 04:05 PM

I don't think you can actually transfer people to different servers. An easier solution might be something like this:

Option 1: Allow a server to send whispers to people in other servers and detect if people are still online. People would log on - go to the ladder server and type like /enterQueue. This would record that they wanted to play ladder. When say the first 10 for tbd or first 12 for ball ladder sign up - those players are whispered and asked to join the server as like a preliminary level. Players respond yes/no. If they respond no they are removed from the queue. If not enough players remain the rest of the players will be told not to join the server. If there are enough players all players will receive a confirmation that everyone accepted and they can move to ladder. If people repeatedly accept but don't join that can be factored into consideration to push them back on the queue or removed altogether.

Option 2: Similar to option 1 only you create a dummy account who everyone friends. I don't know if you can use the command line to whisper from an account but that might be easier than trying to whisper from a server to another server. I also don't think that you can detect which players are online - so that would have to be added. It would basically be the same thing as before but might require less programming?

andy · #5 10-28-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesol

I don't think you can actually transfer people to different servers. An easier solution might be something like this:

Option 1: Allow a server to send whispers to people in other servers and detect if people are still online. People would log on - go to the ladder server and type like /enterQueue. This would record that they wanted to play ladder. When say the first 10 for tbd or first 12 for ball ladder sign up - those players are whispered and asked to join the server as like a preliminary level. Players respond yes/no. If they respond no they are removed from the queue. If not enough players remain the rest of the players will be told not to join the server. If there are enough players all players will receive a confirmation that everyone accepted and they can move to ladder. If people repeatedly accept but don't join that can be factored into consideration to push them back on the queue or removed altogether.

Option 2: Similar to option 1 only you create a dummy account who everyone friends. I don't know if you can use the command line to whisper from an account but that might be easier than trying to whisper from a server to another server. I also don't think that you can detect which players are online - so that would have to be added. It would basically be the same thing as before but might require less programming?

Do it mike, we trust you

mikesol · #6 10-28-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

Do it mike, we trust you

I can't do that in the present state of the game. Lamster and Karl would have to add the ability to send whispers from the command line, detect if people were online, etc. Those things might be a decent amount of work for them as well. I'm not entirely sure how the whisper system or player base is set up or if it's even secure to have access to those things.

andy · #7 10-28-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesol

I can't do that in the present state of the game. Lamster and Karl would have to add the ability to send whispers from the command line, detect if people were online, etc. Those things might be a decent amount of work for them as well. I'm not entirely sure how the whisper system or player base is set up or if it's even secure to have access to those things.

i meant the bot we can all friend.

mikesol · #8 10-28-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

i meant the bot we can all friend.

Even if you all friend the bot I still have no ability to have it check if you're online or whisper you from the command line (which a program would have to do). Hence they still have to add those abilities to the game.

Pieface · #9 10-28-2010, 09:46 PM

Couldn't you just have it do a "/w" command to whisper? I assume if the person's logged off and you try to whisper that you get some sort of error message. Or does that not work?

mikesol · #10 10-28-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieface

Couldn't you just have it do a "/w" command to whisper? I assume if the person's logged off and you try to whisper that you get some sort of error message. Or does that not work?

I'm not entirely sure. I suppose that's a possibility - I'm still a nub with this command.txt file =X

shrode · #11 10-29-2010, 02:04 AM

it could theoretically be a browser based system, such as www.tf2lobby.com, if servers and websites had a way to communicate. just throwing out ideas

sunshineduck · #12 10-29-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrode

it could theoretically be a browser based system, such as www.tf2lobby.com, if servers and websites had a way to communicate. just throwing out ideas

yeah back when I played dota there was a site to join lobbies like that too, notified you when it was time to join a game.

as far as servers communicating with websites go, I'm not sure how boko did that thing where he set up a website to track co-op stats in real-time, presumably that could be set up with a /custom command to log people interested in a game? would take a lot of coding.

nobodyhome · #13 10-30-2010, 12:28 AM

There are lotsa ways you can go about doing this, none of which are really feasible. The main problem with the single bot that notifies people is that there is a limited number of friends allowed, so the bot would only be able to whisper a maximum of 128 people. There is also no way for the bot to move people into the server, so it'd be simply a notification system and not much more.

nobodyhome · #14 10-30-2010, 12:32 AM

Theoretically you could have an army of several bots who'd all sit on the ladder servers so you could just friend the bot that doesn't have max friends. The army of bots would notice when the game ends and then whisper everybody.

The main reason why I won't be doing this is because I currently have no knowledge of how to program the bots. If anyone else wants to partake this project on, they can, as the bots wouldn't have to interact with the ladder code at all. Do shoot me a PM, though.

mikesol · #15 10-30-2010, 01:07 AM

I still don't see how you can whisper from a bot though. I get the idea of having a server talk to you - but if you aren't in that server I see no way of this working.

Evan20000 · #16 10-30-2010, 02:01 AM

Would it be possible to have the server type /vote custom start_doodle between games? Because that would really keep everyone awake and not senselessly pressing 1 like what commonly happens in votes nowadays.

argonide · #17 10-30-2010, 04:53 AM

I would advise against writing an army of bots to coordinate ladder games.

I spoke to lamster about this a while ago and he seemed agreeable to adding a hook so that ladder servers could whisper players. I suggested that he wait till the season 2 updates are finished before doing so since you may have noticed ladder development was in a bit of a limbo(though it seems to be coming along now...) and theres no point in having him write a hook if nobody will use it.

In any case, if lamster dropped off the face of the earth or decided that adding a hook was too much trouble, an IRC channel or something similar with ladder notifications is a much less ambitious solution.