team autobalance algorithm

Echo Mirage · #1 01-04-2011, 03:12 AM

Searched a bit, didn't see anything relevant. Was curious:

What's the autobalance algorithm like? What's it measure and weigh when choosing how to balance?

I ask since in pubs, there's at least one player with whom I can NEVER be on the same team as via a new round/autojoin. By never i mean not one single time in _hundreds_ of games. It's actually a joke by now. No matter what, the other player and I can NOT be on the same team when autojoining at the beginning of a round.

We can sure manually jockey things around, and AFK dynamics change this, but there are certain players that I would be willing to bet CASH DOLLARS at this point won't be on my team at the beginning of a round.

So: why is this? How's the weighting work in the autobalance code?

I understand an hours played/kills made/whatever variable in this, but seriously: over hundreds of games played, there's a handful of players that simply won't autojoin the same team as I will, and that's no longer a statistical anomaly; that's just odd.

Any input?

tgleaf · #2 01-04-2011, 05:33 AM

Actually, it'd be great to know how this works, since there are many rumors ("it's based on XP," "it's based on level," "it's based on # of kills," etc.).

sunshineduck · #3 01-04-2011, 05:46 AM

It balances based on the size of your ego. I always end up on a team by myself, and Sinstar gets kicked from the game.

Snowsickle · #4 01-04-2011, 06:01 AM

Unless it's been changed at some point since I played regularly:

It's based on your current round kill-to-death ratio, but you are awarded 40 hidden kills/deaths at the beginning of a round which reflect your lifetime kill-to-death ratio. If you have a lifetime k:d of 3, you'll be sorted as if you have 30 kills and 10 deaths. If you play a bit and get 0 kills and 20 deaths in-game, when balance is called again, you'll be sorted as if your k:d is 1. I don't believe these carry over between maps, so the pre-round balance is likely to be very similar on map change.

It sorts people in order -- highest to the left, next highest to the right, and so on.

tgleaf · #5 01-04-2011, 06:46 AM

Hotdamn, really? Good to know. Gotta work on my ego then.

Thx, snow.

Evan20000 · #6 01-04-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

It balances based on the size of your ego. I always end up on a team by myself, and Sinstar gets kicked from the game.

Lol'd hard.

Good to know, snow.

Echo Mirage · #7 01-04-2011, 07:21 PM

So, as it affects exclusivity, I might not ever autojoin the same team as another player because our stats are similar? I'm not sure I get that, esp. since the guys I'm talking about are significantly better/more experienced than I am (insert joke here.)

It seems like something's broken in the code to make two players not ever join the same team once in a hundred games...

BobTheJanitor · #8 01-04-2011, 11:24 PM

It looks for clan tags, and puts them all on one team. Then it puts me on the other team, so I can accidentally pass the ball to the wrong person once again.

I swear, if the other team wants to score, the fastest method is to pass the ball to me. I'll be sure to pass it directly to their best player.

Echo Mirage · #9 01-05-2011, 02:27 AM

I'm going to go ahead and ask anyway, even though I already know the answer will be "no:"

Any chance we can see even pseudocode on the current balancing mechanism?

(Waits to be shot on sight by Lam or someone.)

//hell, i don't share my own code, even though it's scripting, and even though I stole it all anyway

shrode · #10 01-05-2011, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Mirage

//hell, i don't share my own code, even though it's scripting, and even though I stole it all anyway

i <3 you for starting that line with //

yay computer science!

Boko · #11 01-05-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Mirage

I'm going to go ahead and ask anyway, even though I already know the answer will be "no:"

Any chance we can see even pseudocode on the current balancing mechanism?

(Waits to be shot on sight by Lam or someone.)

//hell, i don't share my own code, even though it's scripting, and even though I stole it all anyway

And why exactly would you like to see the code for that?

/*
* And here we take aim
*/

Echo Mirage · #12 01-06-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boko

And why exactly would you like to see the code for that?

/*
* And here we take aim
*/

# because i'd still like to know what's causing
# this behavior, and the above weighting
# explanation doesn't account for
# what we're seeing in pubs

Mr. Moooo · #13 01-18-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Mirage

# because i'd still like to know what's causing
# this behavior, and the above weighting
# explanation doesn't account for
# what we're seeing in pubs

<!-- I would also be curious echo

-->

Echo Mirage · #14 01-19-2011, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Moooo

<!-- I would also be curious echo

-->

I know. Don't know why this thread died after so long without any real data given. Guess apathy's got it's hooks in everything.

nobodyhome · #15 01-19-2011, 07:26 AM

snowsickle already gave the full details of the balance algorithm. pretty sure lam is not going to bother giving you source code, especially since snowsickle already explained it all (snowsickle has been around for a long time, i would venture to even say that it's possible he was the one who developed the algorithm)

as for your observed behavior, pretty sure that's just coincidence and not a factual claim. human brains have the tendency to notice the outliers. until you start recording every game and putting down whether the behavior happened or not, i'd claim that you probably just noticed only the times when the behavior happened and none of the times that it didn't.

Echo Mirage · #16 01-19-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

snowsickle already gave the full details of the balance algorithm. pretty sure lam is not going to bother giving you source code, especially since snowsickle already explained it all (snowsickle has been around for a long time, i would venture to even say that it's possible he was the one who developed the algorithm)

...which doesn't even come close to explaining the observed behavior, so either the current AB code has been changed, or something else is at work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

as for your observed behavior, pretty sure that's just coincidence and not a factual claim. human brains have the tendency to notice the outliers. until you start recording every game and putting down whether the behavior happened or not, i'd claim that you probably just noticed only the times when the behavior happened and none of the times that it didn't.

I understand noticing outliers, which is why i can factually state, beyond doubt, that there are players I *can not* be autobalanced with. For instance, the *only* way I can be on the same team with Vimp on a Dojo server is if one of us picks the team, or joins late.

If that wasn't the case, even once, believe me, I wouldn't be typing about it.

Boko · #17 01-19-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Mirage

# because i'd still like to know what's causing
# this behavior, and the above weighting
# explanation doesn't account for
# what we're seeing in pubs

Ugh perl.

You can just ask the devs right? It's not like they don't understand the code they've written, derpherp.

The funny thing is, is that I also noticed this behaviour for the autobalance, several rounds in a row with varying kill/death ratios. It could be broke.