Patch: june 9th, balance adjustments

[lamster]

This patch is mostly aimed at improving balance; please try it out and post your thoughts. A bunch of these changes are experimental so once we see how everything shapes up I'm sure there'll be more balance adjustments.

================================================== ===============
June 9th, 2009

Bomber:
increased hit points by 10%
decreased grenade damage by 3%
increased grenade cooldown by 40%
increased tracking tailgun cooldown by 8%
increased flak tailgun cooldown by 10%

Biplane:
"Dogfighter" mode only - reduced machine gun energy usage by 4%
"Heavy Cannon" - removed pierce, reduced range by 2%
Long Range Gun - reduced range by 4%

Miranda:
"Laser" increased duration by 7% (same total damage over longer time)
"Laser" increased length by 5%
"Time Anchor" increased length by 10%
"Time Anchor" added arrow indicating warp location

Loopy:
decreased tracking missile energy usage by 4%
"Double Fire" increased damage modifier by 5%

Explodet:
"Thermobarics" removed 10% bonus damage

Fixed a few bugs

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by lamster

This patch is mostly aimed at improving balance; please try it out and post your thoughts. A bunch of these changes are experimental so once we see how everything shapes up I'm sure there'll be more balance adjustments.

================================================== ===============
June 9th, 2009

Bomber:
increased hit points by 10%
decreased grenade damage by 3%
increased grenade cooldown by 40%
increased tracking tailgun cooldown by 8%
increased flak tailgun cooldown by 10%

Fixed a few bugs

New bomber is awesome!! now you actually have to aim and choose your shots! a much needed improvement. Would like to have seen biplanes heavy canon get tweaked just a little more.. but its biplane.. so..

One thing you forgot to change. Was just in a game checking out patch, and sure enough.


With 1:24 left, the newest player to the game, who isnt even playing, and is still in spectator, calls the mapchange vote, and it passes. Same old, same old.

Do we even need a vote mapchange in ffa games?? the longest they last is like what? 6 mins? worst case scenario, people who dont like ffa(on an tbd/ffa server i might add) have to wait a whole 6 mins for the map to change back to tbd.....

[skywalker]

damn shame about that FFA.

but, lol pedobear was playing.

[cokane]

Originally Posted by With 1:24 left, the newest player to the game, [B

who isnt even playing[/B], and is still in spectator, calls the mapchange vote, and it passes. Same old, same old.

Do we even need a vote mapchange in ffa games?? the longest they last is like what? 6 mins? worst case scenario, people who dont like ffa(on an tbd/ffa server i might add) have to wait a whole 6 mins for the map to change back to tbd.....

What exactly is the solution to this? Restrict ability to call for votes? Meh I don't like it. It might suck in your situation there, but I can't see the "solution" to this problem being better than the current vote system.

If a group of players join a server on a map they don't like, they have to wait 1-2 minutes to change it? No, sorry that you got denied your glory or w/e, but it's really not a big deal. And I'm sick of people petitioning for this.

[NomNom]

Wasn't the laser already kinda powerful?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by cokane

If a group of players join a server on a map they don't like, they have to wait 1-2 minutes to change it?

Yes, since they joined later. Why should they ruin the fun of the others?

[ryebone]

Originally Posted by Luke

Yes, since they joined later. Why should they ruin the fun of the others?

Because it still takes a majority of yes votes to pass.

[jeppew]

increased grenade cooldown by 40%

i don't even care what else you did this patch, this is so godamn great i don't know what to....

Laser" increased duration by 7%

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-

Laser" increased length by 5%

OOOOOOOoooo...... meh.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by ryebone

Because it still takes a majority of yes votes to pass.

Yea, those from the joined players plus those of the losing players/team already in.

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by cokane

If a group of players join a server on a map they don't like, they have to wait 1-2 minutes to change it? No, sorry that you got denied your glory or w/e, but it's really not a big deal.

Oh come on.... My issue is that its ****ing impossible to get an ffa round in, I dont have access to the stats, but Im sure no more then 2 out of every 10 ffa rounds complete on the official servers. This is crap, Altitude needs as much variety/game types as it can get, thats why people are pushing for more. As it stands now, Altitude is being limited to one game type by a clearly less then optimal vote system. Which lets a person who isnt even playing, vote to change the map even if there is less then a quarter of the game left to play. Tell me this seams reasonable to you?

[jeppew]

Originally Posted by Shyney

Oh come on.... My issue is that its ****ing impossible to get an ffa round in, I dont have access to the stats, but Im sure no more then 2 out of every 10 ffa rounds complete on the official servers. This is crap, Altitude needs as much variety/game types as it can get, thats why people are pushing for more. As it stands now, Altitude is being limited to one game type by a clearly less then optimal vote system. Which lets a person who isnt even playing, vote to change the map even if there is less then a quarter of the game left to play. Tell me this seams reasonable to you?

i think FFA is being shafted because the maps are too small and have not nearly enough spawn locations to support 14 players. Not because of the vote system

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by jeppew

i think FFA is being shafted because the maps are too small and have not nearly enough spawn locations to support 14 players. Not because of the vote system

I agree thats the reason "some" people dont like ffa, however. The vote system is whats letting ffa get screwed right out of the game(which sucks)

[DiogenesDog]

Yeah, agree with Cokane - the map voting system is fine, people are just retards and vote Yes when they shouldn't. No solution to that without making it worse imo.

Btw, what's with the 2% range decrease on heavy cannon? The heck.

[jeppew]

Originally Posted by Shyney

I agree thats the reason "some" people dont like ffa, however. The vote system is whats letting ffa get screwed right out of the game(which sucks)

well, do you think it would be better if everyone who dislikes FFA would be forced to play it or leave because of a "fix" to the vote system rather than fixing what's wrong with FFA?

[chief]

Surely the obvious solution is to stop having servers with a mix of game types. Separate them so there's TBD servers and FFA ones. That way people can chose what type of game they want to play. Another issue is FFA is complete rubbish with two many people so there really should be dedicated FFA servers with a much smaller player limit.

[gameguard]

from my testing, most of these changes are little tweaks and thus pretty unnoticeable. The bomber cooldown is a big step in the right direction though. It just seems more right. And the noob bombers killing you problem is alleviated.

I still see a problem for doublefire dogfighter and bombs. Doublefire's lack of tracking makes it really bad compared to the other perks. The slow velocity of the missles, and the fact taht they separate as they travel makes it really crappy verses anyone that doesn't travel in a straight line. I think the first sensible fix would be to make them travel straight so you can actually aim it off screen. Also, either increase the tracking a bit, increase velocity, or make them stronger. Right now, it misses so much AND its so weak that its not favorable over single fire.

Dogfighter still is bad because in all honesty it didn't really need an energy boost. What it needed was a slight damage boost. Even before this patch, a biplane had enough energy to take out most planes with F+D. The dogfighter's recoil is mostly a bad thing and there is really no reason to use this over recoilless since energy usage wasn't a major issue.

Dumb bombs are kind of pointless but noobs seem to like it. Well, the fact that you can hit people under you is unique to the bomber so maybe its not so bad. But its true that no one uses this perk after they become decent at the game.

[Blank]

haven't played new patch but I feel like commenting on stuff anyway so:

1- FFA's with a minute and change left should be immune to vote map changes. Simply put in a timer that if a (FFA) game has been going on for over 1/2 it's duration, map voting is disabled. BOO ****ING HOO some asshole who just joined can't change maps to TBD... how about playing on one of the bajillion of other TBD servers if you can't stand waiting 2 ****ing minutes? If everyone didn't want to play FFA, they could of voted for a map change when it started. Not just sour grapes map change vote because I'm losing.

2- It sounds like bomber is going to suck again. (EDIT) yep, bomber sucks again. And I'm okay with that.

3- RE gameguard: Buffing loopy double fire in the way you describe simply makes it a better option than default... which is ironic, since you later go on to say how worthless biplane default is since it's outclassed by the other sets. You need an idea that doesn't invalidate a different perk set, which (IMO) hasn't been done for any plane except perhaps miranda (then again, I never see Time Anchor but whatever).

[protest boy]

Originally Posted by lamster

Bomber:
increased hit points by 10%
decreased grenade damage by 3%
increased grenade cooldown by 40%
increased tracking tailgun cooldown by 8%
increased flak tailgun cooldown by 10%

I haven't tried the new flak gun yet but I hope this makes a significant difference. It was way too strong before. I suspect it still will be. Nobody was really complaining about the tracking gun...I feel like nerfing both will keep the flak gun as the obvious better perk.

Biplane:
"Dogfighter" mode only - reduced machine gun energy usage by 4%
"Heavy Cannon" - removed pierce, reduced range by 2%
Long Range Gun - reduced range by 4%

piercing is what makes the heavy cannon unique

Miranda:
"Laser" increased duration by 7% (same total damage over longer time)
"Laser" increased length by 5%
"Time Anchor" increased length by 10%
"Time Anchor" added arrow indicating warp location

excellent, I like all of these changes in theory (haven't tried them yet to see what they actually mean as far as gameplay). I've been playing miranda for the past week, been wasting people left and right, and am basically a newbie with the miranda. I actually made an experienced player leave the game in disgust because I was racking up kills so fast. It was way too quick to kill before.

Loopy:
decreased tracking missile energy usage by 4%
"Double Fire" increased damage modifier by 5%

I think loopy was basically fine (maybe a bit underpowered), and I think this is a minor tweak so that's good. Loopy acid could use an energy reduction. Maybe decreasing the tracking missile energy use will help though.

Explodet:
"Thermobarics" removed 10% bonus damage

Oh good. I wish that 10% were added to the director missiles because those need some sort of buff. As predicted, thermo doesn't bother me as much as it did when it first came out.

[gameguard]

Im not saying make it so the other ones become useless. Just a slight buff to make it useful. It would have to be done with care cus it could easily be overpowered. After playing doublefire a bit more, I guess it is has its uses as a melee perk, cus it takes out planes much faster if ur right up on their tail.

Also, you guys could maybe add anti spam options. Its annoying when kids spam the chat. Make it so that if they type stuff too fast too much, they get kicked.

[gameguard]

I just wish director didnt stall u when its used point blank. Thermo doesnt turn yourself, so why does director effect you? They should both do self damage, but the effect should be consistent.

[Triped]

No pierce?

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by lamster

This patch is mostly aimed at improving balance; please try it out and post your thoughts. A bunch of these changes are experimental so once we see how everything shapes up I'm sure there'll be more balance adjustments.

================================================== ===============
June 9th, 2009

Bomber:
increased hit points by 10%
decreased grenade damage by 3%
increased grenade cooldown by 40%
increased tracking tailgun cooldown by 8%
increased flak tailgun cooldown by 10%

Biplane:
"Dogfighter" mode only - reduced machine gun energy usage by 4%
"Heavy Cannon" - removed pierce, reduced range by 2%
Long Range Gun - reduced range by 4%

Miranda:
"Laser" increased duration by 7% (same total damage over longer time)
"Laser" increased length by 5%
"Time Anchor" increased length by 10%
"Time Anchor" added arrow indicating warp location

Loopy:
decreased tracking missile energy usage by 4%
"Double Fire" increased damage modifier by 5%

Explodet:
"Thermobarics" removed 10% bonus damage

Fixed a few bugs

Sweet! Hey, by any chance, is their a way you can get a sale up at steam for 5 bucks. It would send thousands and thousands of people in game.

[slabchin]

Originally Posted by lamster

Biplane:
"Heavy Cannon" - removed pierce, reduced range by 2%

I'll play a bit more before judging but my immediate reaction is

[tyr]

Well, something had to be done with heavy cannon imho.
No offense to any pro heavy cannon users (I know there are some really good players), but most of this perk users are not so good, and they just get kills by following a large group of planes and just shooting right through everything.
We'll see if it is still that popular now.

[protest boy]

Originally Posted by gameguard

I just wish director didnt stall u when its used point blank. Thermo doesnt turn yourself, so why does director effect you? They should both do self damage, but the effect should be consistent.

I was just thinking about this the other day too, and I think I agree. Keep the mines the same (i.e. your own mines make you bounce around) but remove any area of effects with self-shot missiles (or at least make it consistent, make thermo effect your own plane also).

[slabchin]

Originally Posted by tyr

Well, something had to be done with heavy cannon imho.
No offense to any pro heavy cannon users (I know there are some really good players), but most of this perk users are not so good, and they just get kills by following a large group of planes and just shooting right through everything.
We'll see if it is still that popular now.

The problem here is people bunching up, take your pick on how to kill them.

[nesnl]

As a player who uses Heavy Cannon a lot I can understand why some of the players who use it almost exclusively don't want pierce to be removed. But I think it needed to be done to balance everything out. It just doesn't make sense to have that one weapon have pierce and not any of the others. I think it's just a function of what planes people use. I didn't see nearly anyone complain when pierce was removed from Miranda mostly because most people didn't play Miranda.

As for the changes, it's hard to notice anything right away except the bomber changes. I think overall it's a good change just because there always seems to be about 10 bomber players in every game. So reducing the amount of grenades flying around seems to be good.

I think I agree about the explodet and it's self effect of weapons. Make it consistent either way in that you either make the thermo affect the shooter or make it so the director rocket doesn't affect the shooter.

[cokane]

Definitely disagree with any sort of timer-voting regulation. The game should be regulation free, let the free market speak!

There IS an FFA server... so the solution to wanting to play complete ffas already exists. I suggest you do that. I really can't blame people for wanting to switch away from FFA_Hills, when it looks like there's 14 people on the server. That map is boring with than many players.

Also it seems only 2 people voted against the switch? So what are we complaining about here?

Again, you want to play a ffa, play on the freaking FFA server, but don't demand that your desires trump other players who outnumber you.

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by cokane

Definitely disagree with any sort of timer-voting regulation. The game should be regulation free, let the free market speak!

There IS an FFA server... so the solution to wanting to play complete ffas already exists. I suggest you do that. I really can't blame people for wanting to switch away from FFA_Hills, when it looks like there's 14 people on the server. That map is boring with than many players.

Also it seems only 2 people voted against the switch? So what are we complaining about here?

Again, you want to play a ffa, play on the freaking FFA server, but don't demand that your desires trump other players who outnumber you.

Thats a pretty weak argument.. because I WAS on the appropriate server.. the server setup was tbd and ffa.. And by your own logic, shouldn't the people that want tbd only stick to tbd only servers...?

That same "let the market speak" BS, is what is letting people get kicked out of games for "being osama bin laden"... Im sorry, but the "free market" is stupid. And clearly does need to be policed.

[pig_bomb]

with a minute and half left obviously everybody bellow second or third place is gonna vote to change it

[cokane]

There is a ffa 24/7 server. The ping on there is as good as the official servers. I don't see what the big deal is. More players wanted something else, so they get it. Get over it, you're just one player.

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by pig_bomb

with a minute and half left obviously everybody bellow second or third place is gonna vote to change it

I dont think he gets that.

[DiogenesDog]

first impressions after just a little bit of play:

- heavy cannon really needs some impact fx.

- I actually prefer the "feel" of heavy cannon when it doesn't pierce, screw the haters.

- agree with the people tho who say that it sucks that the heavy cannon lost part of what makes it stand out and feel unique. maybe have it apply a little knockback to the enemy it hits?

- bomber balance seems better, altho I imagine it has less immediate appeal for new players. oh well.

- can't tell the difference with loopy at all

- laser feels a little better to me

- time warp arrow is nice, but bleh I can't even judge this plane because it's so ****ing useless with my lag

[Vania]

I'm just confused by this change:

Long Range Gun - reduced range by 4%

It's not even noticeable, but that's not the point.
The point is: isn't biplane's long range gun crappy enough already?
I dont think I've ever seen anyone use it effectively, not even ferret...

[jeppew]

Originally Posted by Vania

I'm just confused by this change:


It's not even noticeable, but that's not the point.
The point is: isn't biplane's long range gun crappy enough already?
I dont think I've ever seen anyone use it effectively, not even ferret...

i've seen it being used to spam trough chokes to get kills, especially on lost city.

[as red as black]

MAN CANNOT LIVE ON TBD ALONE




also, I have no problem with pierce being taken out, but then again I had no problem with it being left in. Piercing "kebob" shots happen pretty rarely all in all. Don't really think it needed to be dealt with, but it's loss hasn't affected my game at all so ???? whatever. Useless nerf in my opinion.

Laser is a bit powerful. Miranda already had a longrange weapon: trickshot. Laser extension is a bit overkill seeing as how it kills you in like .7 seconds anyways at the shorter range.

[duck]

Everything gets spammed through chokes to get kills on lost city

[nobodyhome]

having pierce gone makes heavy cannon kinda boring imo. i don't understand what is with the hate toward piercing weapons in general--the whole thing about how piercing increases randomness isn't true, because lots of times i fully intend to shoot through two people at once, or at least, aim for some faraway plane, and if someone gets in the way, at least i know that heavy cannon's piercing effect will get the plane i aimed for anyways.

also, removing piercing kinda removes heavy cannon's graphical presence in the game. for such a powerful weapon, the visual effect is already pretty minimal, but removing piercing kinda makes it completely lame.

[Peanut Butter]

So basically you nerf bomber, which wasn't really overpowered to begin with. I think it kind of sucks, but I'm quickly getting used to a slower rate of fire and the tailgun nerf is managable. I'm still generally first or second for MVP status in many games.

However, what is really irritating is that you've barely touched upon the biplane, which is far and away the most overpowered plane right now. Insane burst, best defense next to the explodet (but with more maneuverability and smaller size, basically evening it out a bit), and yet it barely gets any negative tweaks? I can't even count how many times a biplane WITHOUT the repair perk has taken a full rack of 4 direct bomber grenade hits and still lived. Occasionally this number is 5. And all they have to do to kill me is clip through me and double-fire for about half a second.

Something doesn't seem right about that, and I really think you should look into fixing the biplane a bit. I think the loopy and explodet tweaks are fine, and the bomber's is definitely manageable and better now that people can't be retarded and snipe across the level, but the biplane is still very out of line compared to other ships.

[duck]

Originally Posted by Peanut Butter

I can't even count how many times a biplane WITHOUT the repair perk has taken a full rack of 4 direct bomber grenade hits and still lived. Occasionally this number is 5.

Yeah I don't think that's true dude. 4 direct grenade hits are pretty much a death sentence for any plane, with the exception of maybe Explodet but I don't know since I never play with it.