Conspiracy Theories

[Smushface]

I was in the middle of posting to the 9/11 thread when it got closed. I wanted to address a point that Ribilla made away from the original topic.

Basically, talk about something that got brought up in a closed thread but has nothing to do with why the thread got closed. I'm assuming this is kosher.

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Conspiricy theories are utter BS.

No one sane believes that 9/11 was an inside job. It's like thinking that the moon landings were faked.

But there is a long list of "conspiracy theories" that turned out to be completely true.

Like the Tuskegee syphilis experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskege...lis_experiment

Or the Katyn massacre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

And in more recent news:
-A lot of the whistle blowers in high profile cases (like BP) are dying off pretty quickly. Just google it.

-Jon Krakauer makes an argument (although he doesn't say it outright) that Pat Tillmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman) was intentionally killed by the US government so that they could turn him into a hero and use as propaganda.

-Also in the same book, he brings up Jessica Lynch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch) which was easily the highest profile case of the Iraq invasion. Sparknotes: Government says she was a hero who was captured and tortured by the Iraqis who was then rescued in daring night time mission. Reality: She was part of a convoy that got lost, was ambushed, she was knocked unconscious in a car crash, captured, treated humanely, given medical care, and was basically turned back over to the Americans without a fight. Of course, it's easy to rally public sentiment against those evil towelheads when you accuse them of torturing and raping a young, pretty American POW.

Note that I'm not taking everything that Krakauer says at face value (the book is good if you're interested). The Tillman theory is up in the air, but the Lynch thing is 100% confirmed.

Basically, governments far and wide will lie to justify their own ends. Not that everything bad that happens is a conspiracy, but it's 100% wrong to say that "conspiracy theories are utter BS."

[Jrathje]

Originally Posted by Smushface

Basically, governments far and wide will lie to justify their own ends."

You just said it yourself. Since you acknowledge that governments can, will, and do lie to accomplish their goals, why are you so sure of "No one sane believes that 9/11 was an inside job." Are these 1,563 Engineers and Architects insane?

[Flight 666]

man, prolly 99% of conspiracy theories are based in nothing,
but, i worked for aviation all my entire life, ive head a lot of stories, about crash planes in my life, like GOL 737-800NG when it colapse with a legacy in middle of amazon, i saw it alive...wing sessions...body sessions...black box...all...You can mount the plane as if it were a puzzle.

the pentagon hit in no way is compatible with a 757.

sorry my english.

I respect all victims of 09/11.

[Ajuk999]

Originally Posted by Jrathje

You just said it yourself. Since you acknowledge that governments can, will, and do lie to accomplish their goals, why are you so sure of "No one sane believes that 9/11 was an inside job." Are these 1,563 Engineers and Architects insane?

Yes they are.

[MajorPayne257]

Originally Posted by Jrathje

You just said it yourself. Since you acknowledge that governments can, will, and do lie to accomplish their goals, why are you so sure of "No one sane believes that 9/11 was an inside job." Are these 1,563 Engineers and Architects insane?

+1, how can you go from a 100% guarantee that absolutely every single conspiracy theory about 9/11 is wrong, to naming off all of these other theories that turned out to be "completely true"?
Especially the theory about Pat Tillman. I went to Arizona State (where he went to college) and am a huge fan of the Cardinals, so obviously this was a huge deal (it was a huge deal everywhere of course, just more so) where I come from. We absolutely couldn't believe that he was killed by friendly fire when it was first concluded that he was. Initially, it was an ambush, then it went to friendly fire, and now it's turned into a conspiracy theory that the gov't planned it. Just because 2,996 people died in this event doesn't make it safe from conspiracy speculation.

I think it's obvious (or at least should be) that anyone who discusses 9/11 does so without intending to 'insult' or 'belittle' the event (@ Rib in the other thread). Yes, it was a tragedy, but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed or questioned.
I'm not saying I believe that it was an inside job, but to be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised. Sorry if that insults you.

RIP to those who lost their lives 10 years ago.

[Ribilla]

Slightly out of context in that I meant to refer to 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Here's some scary **** and I reckon it is the US government who created, or at least had a hand in creating it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0pi4J8auQ

[Knipchip]

I've always wondered why there are so many sources showing stuff that suggests cases which induce conspiracy theories or at least thoughts AGAINST the ruling theory of (solely) bin Laden and his hijackers being the suspects. I'd be surprised if the media showed you everything of what really happened that day. The most disturbing thing to me is the way the 3 WTC buildings and especially 7 WTC collapsed. I'm not claiming anything but you must be insane to believe planes on their own caused such destruction, not to speak of the fact that planes within the US were actually able to turn around, fly to major cities and crash into major buildings, entirely skirting the system that should've prevented just that.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Jrathje

You just said it yourself. Since you acknowledge that governments can, will, and do lie to accomplish their goals, why are you so sure of "No one sane believes that 9/11 was an inside job." Are these 1,563 Engineers and Architects insane?

Just watched the 10 minute version of their video. I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but even with about 40 hours of materials lectures from first year engineering a lot of what they are saying could easily be rebuffed. That and many of their points seem to rest upon eye-witness accounts from people with no expertise whatsoever which go against what most people seem to have saw.

One guy says that he saw shockwaves ripple through the building, blowing the windows out before it falls, but they then show a video which clearly demonstrates this didn't happen.

Iron and aluminium chips are used in primer paints and 100,000 samples were taken in the aftermath, four is not a significant number and it was later found that the density of iron and aluminium in the samples was so low, that had it all been simultaneously ignited, it would produce less energy than burning paper.

I also find it astounding that people don't expect a falling building to produce explosive sounds and friction (i.e. heat). Or that once columns have failed people expect them to offer any resistance against the momentum of a falling building.

[Ajuk999]

You can argue all the crap in the world you want about who did or didn't do it but you can't argue that it didn't happen and that it wasn't a world-wide tragic event.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

You can argue all the crap in the world you want about who did or didn't do it but you can't argue that it didn't happen and that it wasn't a world-wide tragic event.

Could you clarify who's arguing this?

[Premier Stalin]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

You can argue all the crap in the world you want about who did or didn't do it but you can't argue that it didn't happen and that it wasn't a world-wide tragic event.

Could you clarify who's arguing this?

[Ajuk999]

I hope you guys are trolling.

[Ajuk999]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Could you clarify who's arguing this?

You can't deny that it's real.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

You can't deny that it's real.

I would like you to explain how I am belittling 9/11 in any way. I'm arguing that it is not a government conspiracy, I'm absolutely not denying that it occurred or proposing it wasn't tragic. I cannot comprehend how you can have misunderstood so spectacularly.

[MajorPayne257]

Yeah Ajuk I'm not sure what you're talking about at the moment. I think it's pretty clear that everyone knows it happened and that it was a world-wide tragic event.

[Smushface]

Guys, Ajuk isn't the brightest lightbulb in the glass recycling bin. We've known this for years. Leave it be.

[Premier Stalin]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

You can't deny that it's real.

OMG 911 WAS FACKED HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW THIS OMG IT WAS ALL CGI AND PROPAGANDA NEVER MIND THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT DISAPEAREd.

caps

[GGQ]

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=PRP69GF2

[strato]

Originally Posted by GGQ

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=PRP69GF2

and then I watched the whole episode without realizing it

[Ajuk999]

trololololol

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

trololololol

Worst cover ever.

[Ajuk999]

In all seriousness, I agree with Rib in that I don't think it was an inside job.

Rib, I could careless what you think but I literally was trolling.

[Knipchip]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

Rib, I could careless what you think but I literally was trolling.

No you weren't

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

In all seriousness, I agree with Rib in that I don't think it was an inside job.

Rib, I could careless what you think but I literally was trolling.

Nt. .

[Knipchip]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Or that once columns have failed people expect them to offer any resistance against the momentum of a falling building.

I thought about whether that could be possible. You really think the entire building should immediately go down (the way it did) after the section above the point of impact starts collapsing? This section would just fall all the way down through the central columns below the point of impact because of its momentum? Why didn't it topple over?

[classicallad]

haha, love how my post was mod killed =P

Of course its a tragedy, although my post may have been a little off beat, it sure had substance.

Edit: oh wait it wasnt mod killed, i was looking at the wrong thread.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Knipchip

I thought about whether that could be possible. You really think the entire building should immediately go down (the way it did) after the section above the point of impact starts collapsing? This section would just fall all the way down through the central columns below the point of impact because of its momentum? Why didn't it topple over?

I assume that since the fires were low they failed at the bottom. Once one fails, the others instantly go because the stress in them suddenly spikes. As for why it fall straight down, I haven't got much experience in this, but that's kind of what you would expect.

The only force acting on the building is it's weight and it has a very wide base indeed. It's like getting a paper cuboid, nicking it at the bottom then pushing directly down on it. All the main beams would fail, since the fires are across the bottom floors and there is no sideways force present. You can only expect that it does go straight down. I'm sure there are some civil engineers on the forums who actually understand this properly.

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

I also find it astounding that people don't expect a falling building to produce explosive sounds and friction (i.e. heat). Or that once columns have failed people expect them to offer any resistance against the momentum of a falling building.

u expect explosions where the columns have failed, not 50 floors below and u dont expect the floors to collapse at free fall just cause columns have been torn at the 80th floor (they would still be stable 50 floors below the columns on that building were massive) there should be a pancake effect and there was none.

and the fact that the found hotspots 2 months after with molten steel burning at a higher degree than jet fuel is very sketchy.

also the third tower crashing without any impact from any of the others is just very lolsy

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

In all seriousness, I agree with Rib in that I don't think it was an inside job.

Rib, I could careless what you think but I literally was trolling.

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

The only force acting on the building is it's weight and it has a very wide base indeed. It's like getting a paper cuboid, nicking it at the bottom then pushing directly down on it.

This would be true IF the columns melts/breaks at identical speed, otherwise its going to start tilting towards the side they break the first much like a tree getting chopped down by a lumber jack. I guess they got shattered identically all the way down on both buildings.

[classicallad]

Quality post Tek, it grates me also when people refer to instructions as destructions... what is wrong with these people?? =S

Its the ENGLISH language, i COULDN'T care less about jello which is obv jelly or couch which is obv a settee, weirdo's.

[Selfish Lover]

All the theories are interesting, but lets gown to the real question...WHO IS TAKING ALL THE DAMN MUSTARD OUT OF THE FRIDGE AT WORK????????

[classicallad]

Originally Posted by Selfish Lover

All the theories are interesting, but lets gown to the real question...WHO IS TAKING ALL THE DAMN MUSTARD OUT OF THE FRIDGE AT WORK????????

Go to bed America, your country is safe with us, here's 100 episodes of American gladiators.

RIP Bill Hicks

[Jrathje]

The smoking gun in the official 9/11 story for me, and many others, is the collapse of WTC 7, the 3rd building that fell in NYC that day. WTC 7 was a 47 story steel framed building with relatively minor fires on a few floors. What's puzzling is that it is the ONLY skyscraper to have EVER collapsed from simple fire. It is especially puzzling that this building imploded and fell neatly in its own footprint at free-fall speed.

It just doesn't make sense.

[mikesol]

K so this is definitely one of those prone to argument threads that's against the rules. Please stop making threads like this.