Co-op Sandbox

[Juin]

Shortened link to this thread: http://j.mp/altisandbox You can use this to bring people to this thread from in-game.

Co-op Sandbox
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Host: corrado33

Co-op Sandbox #2 *** Currently offline due to alien abduction.
Location: Minnesota, USA
Host: WhiteShadow

Co-op Sandbox #3 *** Currently offline due to solar radiation.
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Host: KAK BO CHE

All servers share the same database, have more or less the same maps, and the following settings:
Max. Ping: Over 9000
Max. Players: 14
Administrators:

• Active: corrado33, Stig, DMCM, Geiro, Bob17, lollol/mau5/
• Inactive: KAK BO CHE, WhiteShadow, AmateurLobster, Juin

RULES:

1. Do not start mid-map votes without the permission of the living players.
2. Do not flood, in any way (chat, team changes, etc.).
3. Racism/derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
4. Respect the admins. They have a ban hammer.
5. Do not use map exploits to win.

COMMANDS:
The server runs a little program, codename SLAPJACKS. Wait for it...
Statistical Log Analyzer and Parser by Juin for Altitude's Co-op Killer Servers.
No, this is not a dream. It has a bunch of features but it mostly keeps track of a lot of data and produces stats from its database. The amount of commands is a bit limited because of a known bug in the Altitude server code that prevents people from having large server configurations, but I digress:

• /rank: Displays your rating points and your rank.
• /playerRank <player>: Displays <player>'s rating points and rank.
• /listRanks <category>:
  • /listRanks teamMates: Displays the rank and rating of your teammates, which, in co-op, means everyone who's in the server.
  • /listRanks top7: Displays the top 7 players and their respective rating points. Also displays the amount of "active" players in the database.
• /listDemoPlayers: Displays a list of players who are currently using a demo account.
• /roundStats <round ID>: Displays a whole lot of information about a particular round. The round ID can be obtained from post-game server chat or from /mapStats.
• /mapStats <category> <map>:
  • /mapStats general <map>: Displays general information about <map>: finished/unfinished rounds, success rate, average round duration, average life duration, turret kills, team kills, etc.
  • /mapStats records <map>: Displays the top 5 records for <map> with their respective round ID, so you can use /roundStats if you wish to get more information about each of those rounds.
  • /mapStats players <map>: Displays the most successful players of <map>, divided by accumulated base destructions and turret damage.
  • /mapStats planes <map>: This is probably one of the most useful commands for new players. It displays the most successful plane setups for <map>. So if you don't know what plane to use for a map, you can use this command to find out what people are succeeding with.

In addition to most of the standard /vote commands, we have the following:

• /vote restartMap: Silly, a bit redundant with /vote changeMap, but saves some typing and it's clearer for newcomers. It reloads the current map.
• /vote show boobies: Provides a glimpse at the meaning of life.

Suggestions are more than welcome, although there are only so many nights I can invest to formatting large amounts of data to make it fit in the chatbox -and even then, it's still very limited-, so I'm working on a proper website for this and not making more in-game commands at the moment. As for the way the rating works, I'll ask corrado33 to write something here, as he was the one who came up with the formula for it.

Some other silly stuff you can type in:
!rules
!admin
!spec
!kickme
!ping
!mumble
!chipin / !donate


AUTOMATIC BANS:
The server has a module that automatically bans people who flood the chat, flood with team-changes, or have names that contain certain keywords. These keywords are mostly offensive terms in English, with the exception of the {DB} tag. If you're wearing that tag, you won't be able to get in the server. Unlike whatever you might have heard, this is not a personal vendetta of any sort. {DB} is run in a way I consider detrimental to the community, especially to the minorities that fall victim to the bullying that happens beneath its mask. While this might seem ridiculous to some, I've seen enough to take it seriously and will not allow it on my server. We can't make exceptions to this, so please don't ask. The only way to get in is by removing {DB} from your name.


DONATIONS:
ChipIn: http://coopsandbox.chipin.com/
Currently, the servers are hosted on corrado33's and WhiteShadow's home connections. They've been far too kind by providing this, but now that we're expanding and working on things like a major community-powered website, we're aiming at getting a dedicated server. So if you have a little bit of money to spare, we could really use your help. People who donate will be rewarded once we get the server! Rewards could be anything from some secret stuff I've been preparing for the website, to their own custom Altitude server for an amount of time proportional to the money they donate.


Some silly stats to fill this thread (taken on Nov. 1st, 2011):
Total players in database: 3894

Demo players: 1964 (50.4%) - WTF, right?

Altitude Ace Ranks:

So the top 3 most popular ace ranks are 0, 1, and... TEN, lol

Top 3 most developed demo players:


Top 3 longest sessions (hh:mm:ss):

omg, Welly was connected to the server for over 7 hours, nonstop.

Top 5 longest accumulated session duration (total play time on the server):

Figures. Three of those are admins.

[Juin]

Top 3 most kicked players:


Top 5 most popular maps:

[RedLight]

I've been watching this server grow and mature, and I'm really happy to see a great server in the making that can finally bring those who enjoy co-op together, and make it a team sport. I look forward to an awesome time with this. Great work!

[AmateurLobster]

I agree, this is a great server.

A couple of questions

- Can we report people who break the rules and vote midmap,etc?

- Can you give us the exact formula used for the ranking?

- Would you give me the database you have? I'll like to play with different ranking methods as I think coop is a strange beast to try and rank people.

[Juin]

Originally Posted by AmateurLobster

Can we report people who break the rules and vote midmap,etc?

At the moment and until the website comes to life, the only "support" resource would be the in-game admins. I guess if no admins are around and you take screenshots, you could post them on this thread for now.

Originally Posted by AmateurLobster

Can you give us the exact formula used for the ranking?

I haven't really stopped to learn how it works, but I can tell you the following: similarly to ladder, our algorithm is based on the ELO rating system. Each player begins with a rating of 1500 points (first time they join the server), and that can go up or down as they win or lose, respectively. The algorithm requires an opponent which, since this is co-op, is the map itself. Each map has its own rating. Most maps become less difficult with more concurrent players, so we store a rating per map and per player count. For instance, in the database exist rows like:

Map: 1de_coop_101
Player count: 14
Rating: 800

and

Map: 1de_coop_101
Player count: 3
Rating: 2300

The map rating can be thought of as the map difficulty. In this case, 800 is way below the base rating, so it should be easy to beat with 14 players and thusly, you'll get less points than if you beat it with 3 players.
The ranks are just a list of all the ratings, sorted in descending order. I'll ping corrado33; he can write something more meaningful than this.

Originally Posted by AmateurLobster

Would you give me the database you have? I'll like to play with different ranking methods as I think coop is a strange beast to try and rank people.

The database is a bit of a mess in some aspects - some tables could really use a reset. I had no knowledge of database schema or PHP prior to this project, so the development has been an unorganized product of googling and reminding myself how my mom used to say I was smart. Some sensitive player information exists in the database (i.e. IPs), so if you don't mind waiting for a bit (and possibly insisting) for me to produce a "stripped" copy of the database, I'll gladly hand it to you.

[RedLight]

Originally Posted by Juin

I'll gladly hand it to you.

Count me in on that too. Also, as you already know I'm available to help with the graphical side of things (as well as some front-end clients), so just ping me when you need me.

[Flexio]

Originally Posted by RedLight

so just ping me when you need me.

"Give me a ping, Vasili. One ping only, please."

[corrado33]

Originally Posted by Juin

I haven't really stopped to learn how it works, but I can tell you the following: similarly to ladder, our algorithm is based on the ELO rating system. Each player begins with a rating of 1500 points (first time they join the server), and that can go up or down as they win or lose, respectively. The algorithm requires an opponent which, since this is co-op, is the map itself. Each map has its own rating. Most maps become less difficult with more concurrent players, so we store a rating per map and per player count. For instance, in the database exist rows like:

Map: 1de_coop_101
Player count: 14
Rating: 800

and

Map: 1de_coop_101
Player count: 3
Rating: 2300

The map rating can be thought of as the map difficulty. In this case, 800 is way below the base rating, so it should be easy to beat with 14 players and thusly, you'll get less points than if you beat it with 3 players.
The ranks are just a list of all the ratings, sorted in descending order. I'll ping corrado33; he can write something more meaningful than this.

Juin has learned enough about the rating system to become dangerous!

Anyway, he is correct in what he said but he forgot a few things. The map ratings are not static. In fact, they all start at 2000. (We chose to start the maps higher because we knew they would go up since more rounds are lost in coop than won, so we just gave them a head start. And it made it easier for players to gain rank when the server was first launched.) So essentially every map with every player count has an initial value of 2000 until it's played. It just so happens that most maps are easier with more people, so they get beat more often with more people, therefore the ratings naturally stratify into "more people = lower map difficulty." (I was actually surprised when I found out that this is actually true. I mean, Juin and I predicted it would happen like that, but we were both surprised when it happened as perfectly as it did.)

This works in our benefit as well. As coop naturally progresses, maps fall into and out of popularity. As they get beat more and more, they get easier, and players get less ranking gains from beating them, therefore pushing them to try new maps. Also, "hard" maps are great for players because if they win, they gain a lot of rating, but if they lose they don't lose as much as they would on an easier map. So it's a "win-win" situation.

The map difficulty is also based on who you play with. Obviously, if you play with some of the top rated coop players, the map will be easier because of their tremendous skill. (Did I mention I'm #2 currently? ) All jokes aside, playing with better players makes the map easier because they will most likely win, even if you die. On the contrary to that, if a coop regular that is ranked high plays with a bunch of newer players who are ranked very low, the coop regular's rating is somewhat protected because the map is "technically" harder for that player. To put it blunt, since the regular's teammates most likely are terrible, it makes the map harder. Admit it, when you first started coop and had no idea what to do you were terrible too. That's the cool thing about coop, you actually have to learn how to solve the puzzles without dying.

Now, some of you may be wondering why we did it like this. Well, we chose an actual tried and true ranking system because it's fair for everybody. In systems where you gain XP per map you beat, much like systems where you gain XP per turret you kill, it'd be IMPOSSIBLE for a newer player to catch up to people that play every day. It's also be impossible for someone who plays once a week to keep up with people who play twice a day. With our rating system, everyone has a fair chance. All they have to do is win. We definitely didn't want to base our rating system on turret or base kills because those are too easy to spoof and cheat. Maps with tons of turrets would be favored over "rush" coop maps.

Also, people with ratings closer to the initial rating of 1500 get a "boost" of rating. This is to allow newer players to settle into their actual rating faster so they don't have to play a TON of games to get to where their true skill level is represented by their rating.

However, there are some disadvantages to our system. First and foremost, with a system like the elo rating system, players that are ranked extremely high might not want to play for fear of losing rating. Well, we thought of that, and if you suddenly stop playing as much as you usually do when you get a good rating, you're rating will start to slowly drop off. For example, to be one of the top rated in our system, you basically can't lose. I lose 20 or so points every time I lose a round, and I only gain 2 or 3 at max. You do the math. So, when I was number 1, I could have sat around and not played and let people try to catch up to me. But we didn't want that to happen. That's why we implemented this part of the system.

Also, technically our system could be cheated by a very dedicated player who creates a bunch of different demo account and loses a TON on a map then comes in with their main account and beats the map. We thought of this. We know who has multiple accounts. Just remember that ALL of your information is stored in our database every time you come into the server. So if you try something like this, we will know, and we will ban you.

I've already had complaints from high ranking players that the system is unfair because they never gain rating. I can relate. On seafight (one of the more popular easy maps now) I gain 0 rating. Yes, I don't gain any rating whatsoever. And I doubt any of the top 10 or 15 players do. So, here is what I tell them.

PLAY HARDER MAPS AND STOP PLAYING THE SAME ONES OVER AND OVER AND OVER!

(Ok I don't really yell at them, but that's my advice.)

There are also little things about our rating system that we don't really want to tell everybody, but they make things more fair and harder to cheat.

All in all, we strive to create a fair environment where everyone feels welcome and no one feels like they can never be competitive.

With that said. Make sure to obey the rules of the sever. Our admins are not afraid to ban people. We will give you warnings and if you still manage to ignore them, you will get banned. Just use common sense. If you are doing something that is making other players have less fun, you're most likely breaking a rule.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask us in game. If we're playing we might not answer you (because we don't want to lose), but just give us time to finish the round and we'll gladly answer any questions you have.

[RedLight]

corrado33, thanks for the detailed insight into the rankings algorithm. It's quite an interesting read, and I really appreciate the work you guys have put into this to make it a fair environment for everyone.

Juin, I suddenly got worried when I saw those tables that you're storing user information with their username, instead of vapor-id. Hopefully you're not keeping everyone's stats associated with just their name? What if they decide to change it?

[idk]

This server is very nice and is driven by a serious hoster If you're up for co-op, this is it!

[corrado33]

Originally Posted by RedLight

corrado33, thanks for the detailed insight into the rankings algorithm. It's quite an interesting read, and I really appreciate the work you guys have put into this to make it a fair environment for everyone.

Juin, I suddenly got worried when I saw those tables that you're storing user information with their username, instead of vapor-id. Hopefully you're not keeping everyone's stats associated with just their name? What if they decide to change it?

You worry too much. We store stats based on vapor ID and a unique "player ID" that's given to everyone as soon as they enter the server for the first time. (Juin is #1 I believe). I believe Juin did that because vapor IDs are a pain to type out and use . We update the player's name with their most current name used in the game. So really, a player's name is not a reference, but more of a data point.

[Juin]

Originally Posted by RedLight

Juin, I suddenly got worried when I saw those tables that you're storing user information with their username, instead of vapor-id. Hopefully you're not keeping everyone's stats associated with just their name? What if they decide to change it?

Sorry for the delay, my ADD must've buried your post. Like corrado33 said, each player has a unique integer ID and a unique vapor ID. What you see in the stats I posted here are results from queries that produce aliases. For instance, we don't have a column named "totalSessionDurations" - that's just an alias created from the query I built to come up with those stats. I just omitted the unique IDs for the silly stats. The database schema is very complex, but quite normalized. I had to read like 3 books on SQL and database design to build it, lol

[Xorg]

Hi, admins. I would to talk to you about 101 map, which is very popular for coop players. This map improves noobs' skills, and this is great. But I want to say that 101 is way too overplayed. Everytime when noobs are compaining about maps which they can't pass at all, first of all they're voting for 101 and vote always passes. But the problem is that they're doing it in mid-map, which is really annoying. I don't know what are you going to do, but is it a good idea to remove 101 from this server?

-Xorg

[Juin]

Hi, Xorg. I made that map specifically in an attempt to increase the level of gameplay in co-op for new players, and I like to think it has worked. I understand it is played a lot (see the stat I just added to the second post), and that can get frustrating. Ideally I'd like to have a second server experienced players like you can use, where I predict this map wouldn't be played as much and where new players could "graduate" to, but I'm prioritizing the website over that right now. For now, I can't remove the map because I believe it helps new players more than any other map, making them stick around. Patience.

[elxir]

Holy crap Juin, I've never seen this before but you've done some nice work here! You should ask lamster to get a subforum for your coop stuff like ladder has - it could help people notice the existence of the game mode.

[Xorg]

Hey, Juin. Since your rating system is going well, I've remembered one command from EU CO-OP server like: /ReportPlayer <reason>. This command will be useful, whoever breaks rules. What do you think about it?

Thanks!!

[AmateurLobster]

Top 5 longest accumulated session duration (total play time on the server):

Figures. Three of those are admins.

Seems like those other guys should be invited to become admins

[corrado33]

Originally Posted by AmateurLobster

Seems like those other guys should be invited to become admins

Was that a hint?

EDIT: BTW: 11/12/11 Best Coop day know to history.

[Taylay]

Originally Posted by corrado33

Was that a hint?

EDIT: BTW: 11/12/11 Best Coop day know to history.

Yes, you and your robot voice was excelent :P

We did a lot of records

[soccernamlak]

Originally Posted by corrado33

Was that a hint?

EDIT: BTW: 11/12/11 Best Coop day know to history.

Absolutely! I had a blast with you guys! I usually try to balance between Dojo and Sandbox on a Saturday night, but last night was just too much fun

[sky]

Originally Posted by corrado33

was that a hint?

edit: Btw: 11/12/11 best coop day know to history.

agreed i am staying in altitude 1 month longer because of this day legit love eveyone who was there

[Jesus]

Originally Posted by corrado33

EDIT: BTW: 11/12/11 Best Coop day know to history.

This. Coop last night was a lot of fun.

[Juin]

I am proud to say I am not on this list. But, damn it, I wish I were.


Top 7 longest sessions for Nov. 12th, 2011.

Edit: btw, donation info added to the main post. :-)

[Ribilla]

Corrado, your so addicted.

[soccernamlak]

Originally Posted by Juin

I am proud to say I am not on this list. But, damn it, I wish I were.


Top 7 longest sessions for Nov. 12th, 2011.

Edit: btw, donation info added to the main post. :-)

Heh, the sad part is I might have been a tad higher up (with at least a few more hours in) if I hadn't switched over to Dojo a few times that night on certain maps.

But not as crazy as Corrado; that's just insanity taken to the next level

Edit: It looks like Corrado also overtook Welly for longest (Top 3) in-server sessions as well.

[Medo]

This is a nice server to play on, especially because its a well known server and the ranking system ofc.
but, wtf 43 kicks?

[Medo]

[QUOTE=Juin;145823]Top 3 most kicked players:


WTF?

[DMCM]

[QUOTE=Medo;149742]

Originally Posted by Juin

Top 3 most kicked players:


WTF?

!Rules

10chars

[corrado33]

Originally Posted by soccernamlak

Heh, the sad part is I might have been a tad higher up (with at least a few more hours in) if I hadn't switched over to Dojo a few times that night on certain maps.

But not as crazy as Corrado; that's just insanity taken to the next level

Edit: It looks like Corrado also overtook Welly for longest (Top 3) in-server sessions as well.

I don't know what you guys are talking about... I'm not insane (*my precious server*)...

I just (*must play now*) play for long periods of time. Many times I don't play for days at a time (*I die from anticipation*)
*he he*

Also, I've added my most recent map, purgatory to the server. It's very long, but if more people would stay alive it would go quicker .

[Juin]

New server added to main post.

[corrado33]

I'm so loved....




Doing my name proud, only corrado's left. (Don't ask me what 35 was doing, at that point in the map with only silver bars.....)

[corrado33]

Oh and Juin, since I never actually see you in game anymore. You'd be proud of me.

I got the showRules function down. It lets admins show specific people rules by typing something like this...

/showRules playername

That will serverwhisper to them the rules.

But what if I wanted to show EVERYBODY the rules? I'd just use my own name like so..

/showRules corrado33

or in your case

/showRules Juin

and it'll servermessage them.

Right now I have it based on the names of the admins, so if they change their name, it won't work, but I'm sure we could get it working on vapor IDs instead.


I ALSO got the startRandom function down.

You know, how we talked about having a random map selector?

This does just that. It's not perfect, because currently there are more maps in the database than are on the server, so sometimes it picks a map that isn't on the server. (In that case I just keep running the command till it picks one that is in the server.) But it does work. Cool hu? As of right now I made it a vote so people can vote it... obviously....

All you do is type
/vote startRandom

Not only that BUT redlight finally finished his map and we tested it a bit tonight. Looks like it'll be a VERY popular map (and it's not 20 minutes like my most recent map is). He still has to make a few changes but I bet it'll be on the normal server soon. It's on the test server ATM.

OH and I made the names visible on purgatory, just for you. (I made other changes too.)

[RedLight]

Last night was great. What an awesome New Year.

[Demuyt]

Originally Posted by RedLight

Last night was great. What an awesome New Year.

ok that's pretty weird

[DMCM]

I forgot to take a screenshot, but this was pretty funny:

[22:10] F-16 BiPipi has called a vote to changeMap 1de_coop_cm.
[22:10] Vote failed with 25% yes votes (needed >74%).
[22:11] corrado37: stop voting in the middle of a game
[22:11] (RD*) d-_-b (Pro*): kick like DMCM cor

[RedLight]

Originally Posted by Demuyt

ok that's pretty weird

No offense but your comment was pretty weird. Was my post abnormal in any way? I was just mentioning that I had an awesome New Year's Eve (and New Year's Day) testing my map on Sandbox. Is there anything wrong with that?

[corrado33]

Originally Posted by RedLight

No offense but your comment was pretty weird. Was my post abnormal in any way? I was just mentioning that I had an awesome New Year's Eve (and New Year's Day) testing my map on Sandbox. Is there anything wrong with that?

Think of it with a dirty mind, then you'll get it. I don't think he meant anything by it

[Stig]

The new command /Showrules sound pretty cool. But i tried it today at Sandbox #1
(/Showrules CL| Stig and /Showrules "player") and it didn't work. Is it just because you haven't restarted the server yet?

[tomato man]

Geiro just kicked me without any reason... plz give me a reason geiro

Times agoes i got a ban for a random kick so now i want my VENDETTA

[AmateurLobster]

Originally Posted by tomato man

Geiro just kicked me without any reason... plz give me a reason geiro

Times agoes i got a ban for a random kick so now i want my VENDETTA

Well Geiro is not an admin, so you mean he vote kicked you.

In that case how many were in the server?
Geiro usually only votes to kick people who break rules, so chances are, if a large number voted to kick you, you probably deserved it.

On a slightly related note, admins need a place to record short bans handed out. Then we can take a players history into account if they break rules again.

I have the feeling we give short-term bans to the same people again and again.