Altitude Ladder Fantasy TBD!

[sunshineduck]

oh, i was gonna have those flex spots just have stats for a plane that you pick. as in you can put any player and pick any plane for that spot, but you still only get stats for that plane.

[Smushface]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

oh, i was gonna have those flex spots just have stats for a plane that you pick. as in you can put any player and pick any plane for that spot, but you still only get stats for that plane.

But what about those multi-plane players

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Smushface

But what about those multi-plane players

they're still more valuable because you can put them in any slot?

[acegunner]

So the owners pick the teams?

[Smushface]

Ok, so when's the draft? Doesn't really even have to be live.

[CCN]

actually i withdraw, feel someone with their finger ont he pulse can benefit from it more.

[sunshineduck]

ok, goose inserted for ccn.. sorry bud!

i'm generating the draft order via - http://www.firststepconsulting.com/U...erateStart.asp

[sunshineduck]

Round 1
1. r87
2. Smushface
3. ex
4. sunshineduck
5. Andy
6. G00SE
7. class
8. leggo

Round 2
9. leggo
10. class
11. G00SE
12. Andy
13. sunshineduck
14. ex
15. Smushface
16. r87

Round 3
17. r87
18. Smushface
19. ex
20. sunshineduck
21. Andy
22. G00SE
23. class
24. leggo

Round 4
25. leggo
26. class
27. G00SE
28. Andy
29. sunshineduck
30. ex
31. Smushface
32. r87

Round 5
33. r87
34. Smushface
35. ex
36. sunshineduck
37. Andy
38. G00SE
39. class
40. leggo

Round 6
41. leggo
42. class
43. G00SE
44. Andy
45. sunshineduck
46. ex
47. Smushface
48. r87

Round 7
49. r87
50. Smushface
51. ex
52. sunshineduck
53. Andy
54. G00SE
55. class
56. leggo

Round 8
57. leggo
58. class
59. G00SE
60. Andy
61. sunshineduck
62. ex
63. Smushface
64. r87

Round 9
65. r87
66. Smushface
67. ex
68. sunshineduck
69. Andy
70. G00SE
71. class
72. leggo

Round 10
73. leggo
74. class
75. G00SE
76. Andy
77. sunshineduck
78. ex
79. Smushface
80. r87

Round 11
81. r87
82. Smushface
83. ex
84. sunshineduck
85. Andy
86. G00SE
87. class
88. leggo

[sunshineduck]

ron, you're on an untimed clock and can pick whenever. if you wanna wait until the season 3 stats are posted that's fine too.

[sunshineduck]

oh, right, scoring.

(1*kills) + (0.5*assists) - (0.5*deaths) + (0.75*base damage) + (1.25*bomb carrier kills)

what do we need to fix here? make deaths more important (0.75?) and bomb carrier kills more important? (1.5? 2?)

[Ribilla]

So your entire scoring system is based on kills rather than doing useful things like bomb hits?

Vote Rib for best player.

[Smushface]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

So your entire scoring system is based on kills rather than doing useful things like bomb hits?

Vote Rib for best player.

This is what I thought at first but then I realized that 1 standard bomb hit = 23 kills.

edit: SSD, i vote no flex position. The equation is skewed in favor of lights and I don't see a way to really improve it without messing something up.

[sunshineduck]

well the important thing is less how good lights are and how much better the players you draft are than the other players. i.e goose will be much more valuable than another whale who doesn't kill as much. maybe up the importance of assists so heavies are more valuable i.e a 0.75 multiplier since bombers and whales are going to get a ton more assists than mirandas?

the main problem is that there just aren't that many heavies to choose from. maybe flip the flex spot back to a heavy spot? or just remove it entirely?

[Goose]

what happens if people switch planes during the course of a game? Aya might play biplane, lazer, whale etc...

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Goose

what happens if people switch planes during the course of a game? Aya might play biplane, lazer, whale etc...

he only gets the stats for the individual plane you play him at each two-week set. score is determined via an average, so it shouldn't be affected much since if he only plays laser for two lives then it'll be reflected in kills/deaths per 10 minutes etc.

[sunshineduck]

going by season 3 stats and using the formula (1*kills) + (0.75*assists) - (0.75*deaths) + (0.75*base damage) + (1.5*bomb carrier kills)

donk: 53.037, rank 1
mat: 33.167, rank 2
ingbo: 44.87, rank 4
dragon: 39.23, rank 7
vipr: 44.338, rank 10
goose: 28.6125, rank 14
meta knight: 40.78, rank 15
nade: 31.455, rank 17
me: 37.118, rank 23
rib: 53.48, rank 29

for people that played (mostly) one plane.

maybe make base damage worth less at a 0.5 multiplier? if we do that, it looks like:

donk: 41.38, rank 1
mat: 31.76, rank 2
ingbo: 36.95, rank 4
dragon: 34.715, rank 7
vipr: 40.013, rank 10
goose: 27.883, rank 14
meta knight: 37.275, rank 15
nade: 30.358, rank 17
me: 31.616, rank 23
rib: 50.17, rank 29
redrum (next highest pure explo): 23.565, rank 38

it's imperfect, but better than before. thoughts?

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

it's imperfect, but better than before. thoughts?

What are you actually aiming for? The score from the stats to mimic the ladder rankings?

[nobodyhome]

you probably don't need the stat points to reflect too closely to actual ranking. just publish the formula and then people will play around it. for example in fantasy basketball kevin durant and chris paul are some of the best fantasy players to have on your team but aren't quite the best basketball players in the nba.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

you probably don't need the stat points to reflect too closely to actual ranking. just publish the formula and then people will play around it. for example in fantasy basketball kevin durant and chris paul are some of the best fantasy players to have on your team but aren't quite the best basketball players in the nba.

u high? .d,.f,/d.,fsd

[elxir]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

you probably don't need the stat points to reflect too closely to actual ranking. just publish the formula and then people will play around it. for example in fantasy basketball kevin durant and chris paul are some of the best fantasy players to have on your team but aren't quite the best basketball players in the nba.

ur trollin'

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

What are you actually aiming for? The score from the stats to mimic the ladder rankings?

i'm aiming for heavies to have closer points scored to lights (specifically mirandas) and still maintain a gap between the great players and the decent ones.

ed: which was accomplished, btw. difference between mat and ingbo dropped from 11.7 to 5.2, and difference between ingbo myself only dropped from 7.75 to 5.33. difference between mat and redrum is 8.2.

[Ribilla]

How do you work out the bomb hit contribution? Do you take the bomb hit per game and divide it by the average length of the game then *10? The same goes for carrier kills, as these stats are both per game, rather than per 10 mins.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

How do you work out the bomb hit contribution? Do you take the bomb hit per game and divide it by the average length of the game then *10? The same goes for carrier kills, as these stats are both per game, rather than per 10 mins.

huh? it's over two weeks, and the damage per game stat is calculated over that period of time. i.e if they get a total of 600 base damage in total over 30 games in that 2 week stretch, they get 20 base damage per game. same calculation as the main ladder page.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

huh? it's over two weeks, and the damage per game stat is calculated over that period of time. i.e if they get a total of 600 base damage in total over 30 games in that 2 week stretch, they get 20 base damage per game. same calculation as the main ladder page.

Okay, I just thought it was odd that you do some stats per unit time (say kills) and some stats per unit game (say, carrier kills).

[Ingbo]

the problem with this imo is that there is a vast difference even amongst the top parts of ladder how good and great players gain their actual xp and some xp gained wont be worth nearly as much as some other xp gained both in ball and tbd.

[sunshineduck]

xp gain isnt a part of the formula :P

[Ingbo]

ait ill go over the one uhave id do this:
"going by season 3 stats and using the formula (1*kills) + (0.75*assists) - (0.75*deaths) + (0.75*base damage) + (1.5*bomb carrier kills)
"

(1*kills (think this is debatbale given like what rib says how terrible pure whoring is)) + (0.35-0.50* assist(somewhere there)) - (0.6 *deaths (this is tricky cause how u die is obv superimportant in reality)) + (0.75 *base damage (fine imo)) + (2-3.5 *bomb carrier kills (this is very important stat))

no maths tried just what i would instinctually guess but try these numbers and see where u land

[elxir]

With the first pick in the 2011 Fantasy Team Base Destruction Draft, r87 selects DRAGON

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Ingbo

(1*kills (think this is debatbale given like what rib says how terrible pure whoring is)) + (0.35-0.50* assist(somewhere there)) - (0.6 *deaths (this is tricky cause how u die is obv superimportant in reality)) + (0.75 *base damage (fine imo)) + (2-3.5 *bomb carrier kills (this is very important stat))

with (1*kills) + (0.4*assists) - (0.6*deaths) + (0.75*base damage) + (3*bomb carrier kills)

donk: 56.81, rank 1
mat: 36.88, rank 2
ingbo: 50.213, rank 4
dragon: 49.859, rank 7
vipr: 53.109, rank 10
goose: 31.392, rank 14
meta knight: 46.271, rank 15
nade: 35.57, rank 17
me: 41.69, rank 23
rib: 61.59, rank 29
redrum (next highest pure explo): 26.25, rank 38

with (1*kills) + (0.4*assists) - (0.6*deaths) + (0.5*base damage) + (3*bomb carrier kills)

donk: 45.143, rank 1
mat: 35.48, rank 2
ingbo: 42.293, rank 4
dragon: 45.344, rank 7
vipr: 49.809, rank 10
goose: 30.21, rank 14
meta knight: 42.71, rank 15
nade: 34.47, rank 17
me: 36.19, rank 23
rib: 58.29, rank 29
redrum (next highest pure explo): 25.69, rank 38

i like the second set of numbers. try to remember that this isn't supposed to substitute for ladder rank or be a subjective rating function, the formula is just supposed to adjust for importance of particular stats and i'm trying to get the heavy numbers closer to the light numbers so that picking whales is actually important.

at the same time, i feel like the second set of numbers isn't really representative of how ladder is - any format where donk isn't the highest non-rib scorer probably isn't working as intended. maybe just use the first set, artificially increase heavy scoring by multiplying by 1.3 since any formula we come up with probably isn't going to get favorable numbers for them?

i feel like kills are fine. they're pretty much like points in basketball or yards in football, the numbers aren't adjusted based on degree of difficulty or usefulness in fantasy sports so i don't see a problem leaving them as is here. rib obviously scored an outlandish amount of points but he also barely played ladder so it's not like he's going to ruin this game or anything. if anything we can make an activity rule so that over a 2 week match it takes the avg of the avg from the first and second weeks so if he scored 50 points per week in 5 games 1 week but didn't play at all the second week he'd only score 25 points total.

[nobodyhome]

i might've missed this part of the discussion but why are you making a formula that aggregates all the stats, instead of just having each stat be a separate category you can score points under as in fantasy basketball? is it just easier?

[Aki1024]

Plane vs plane scored on each stat category, winning a category wins you 1 point in that faceoff. Win the face off wins you that plane point. Most plane points wins the match.
I thought this is what was wanted before the equation got attention.

[sunshineduck]

well it makes it more fun imo, i always lose interest in roto-style fantasy basketball because it's less emphasis on drafting individual players and more of just doing statistical analysis to find out what combination will get you the higher likelihood of winning specific categories. i find it a lot more interesting to point out like "oh this guy scored 30 points per week for you and he was an 8th round pick" than "this guy contributes in 4 different categories and doesn't kill you in the 5th and was picked in the 6th" anyway. i feel like the lack of activity in fantasy basketball (category-based scoring) as opposed to football (tallying up a score) shows that score-based matchups are more interesting and keep activity up. scoring-based also allows you to scale stats based on importance rather than having assists be worth the same as base damage, etc

[Ingbo]

the one i gave u was to try and give u a close cut 1,2,3 etc. didnt know what plans u guys had.

[sunshineduck]

anyway, smushface can pick any time

[elxir]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

anyway, smushface can pick any time

should we have a thread solely for picks, with no other posts allowed...to avoid massive confusion

[Clapon]

Originally Posted by elxir

should we have a thread solely for picks, with no other posts allowed...to avoid massive confusion

this plz...

[acegunner]

BTW this scoring system makes whale players almost completely useless compared to a randa or loopy.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by acegunner

BTW this scoring system makes whale players almost completely useless compared to a randa or loopy.

yah if you don't overpay someone else will. if he slash his agent didn't think he was worth that wouldn't he have accepted the offer instantly?

[sunshineduck]

so is everyone fine with:

(1*kills) + (0.4*assists) - (0.6*deaths) + (0.75*base damage) + (3*bomb carrier kills)

and

heavies get scores multiplied by 1.3?

[andy]

How would 1.3 affect the standings? 30% increase could be a lot.