People not able to get second ladder going lately

[kolobos]

What's up with everyone sitting at 26/26, even when there 4 people stuck in the ladder #4?
We really need to limit max players to 17 on all servers, because it hurts people who actually want to play, and not get specced all the time.

[Threevenge]

Originally Posted by kolobos

What's up with everyone sitting at 26/26, even when there 4 people stuck in the ladder #4?
We really need to limit max players to 17 on all servers, because it hurts people who actually want to play, and not get specced all the time.

How does it hurt people who want to play? There's nothing keeping you from joining and trying to start a second ladder. You should be asking why people choose not to. First, nobody wants to play the same people repeatedly with the same teams getting the same results. Just one terrible player in a 12 person room can make a team's fate certain. It becomes a game of luck.

What usually happens is you get two high ranked players playing against on opposite teams over and over. Zz and I did this once and I swept him because he got the same weaker team 6 times in a row. It got dull.

Also when I am in ladder I am in mumble, which means I actually cheer on the other guys while I spec or work with them when we are on the same team. I wouldn't want to be in a different match.

[kolobos]

Originally Posted by Threevenge

How does it hurt people who want to play? There's nothing keeping you from joining and trying to start a second ladder.

We don't have thousands of people playing ladder, to have multiple 26 people servers running at any time.

Originally Posted by Threevenge

Just one terrible player in a 12 person room can make a team's fate certain. It becomes a game of luck.

I said 17, not 12. There will be some rotation.

Originally Posted by Threevenge

Also when I am in ladder I am in mumble, which means I actually cheer on the other guys while I spec or work with them when we are on the same team. I wouldn't want to be in a different match.

Then you need to have several mumble rooms, one for each Alti ladder server, not vote for measures that shrink the game population to the size of your single mumble server.

[Threevenge]

How can I cut to this: I know this thread is in response to the other night when you asked a full ladder server to start another ladder and nobody was interested. Why? Second ladders rarely start, usually end up with maybe 14 players at most (causing the team problem I mentioned) and you risk losing your spot in the active ladder to someone waiting if it fails to start or dies quickly. Going down to 17 players doesn't solve your problem, it makes the fear of losing your spot even worse.

The response to the mumble problem is silly by the way. There's only like 6 of us and the idea that I would want altitude to remain small for just the mumble guys is absurd. I said I choose not to switch servers because I prefer to play with the group, not that everyone should feel that way and never switched servers.

[ryebone]

We should increase server size to 40. Not a joke.

[sunshineduck]

yeah hella people autojoin for a looooong time rather than try to start new ladder already, and then log off if they don't get in. it was even worse back when the server sizes were smaller.

[undertheinfluence]

Is their a way to implement a command that would start a vote for only the specs to see, where they can vote on whether they are willing to leave to join a new server? With a simpler way to see who would be willing to go to the other ladder, one can avoid the frustration of trying to figure out who really wants to go or not. I also think this would eliminate the fear of losing ones spot if not enough players decide to leave after the first one goes. Overall, It could just be a really simple way to do things IMO.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by undertheinfluence

Is their a way to implement a command that would start a vote for only the specs to see, where they can vote on whether they are willing to leave to join a new server?

yes, it's called typing "hey guys wanna start a second ladder?"

[Ingbo]

lol ssd ur funny

[Slender]

Originally Posted by ryebone

We should increase server size to 40. Not a joke.

thiisssssssssss O:

[undertheinfluence]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

yes, it's called typing "hey guys wanna start a second ladder?"

I was going to add something else to clarify but... In reality, every time someone does that, half the people simply ignore who is talking. I have done it before and I have seen other people attempt to ask also. It usually plays out like this:

Player 1-Wanna go to other ladder we have plenty of people!?
Player 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10- (will go when others go, no need to respond now)
Player 11- OK LETS GO!!!
Player 12-No

Obviously if everyone were to cooperate then it would be easier just to ask, but people simply don't respond and it never works out.

[sunshineduck]

if they don't respond when you ask them if you want to change servers then why would you feel like an in-game vote would be an accurate representation of the whether or not people will switch?

[ryebone]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

if they don't respond when you ask them if you want to change servers then why would you feel like an in-game vote would be an accurate representation of the whether or not people will switch?

Ideally if 12 people were to vote yes, we could use the moveserver tool to automatically move all 12 people to the other server.

[undertheinfluence]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

if they don't respond when you ask them if you want to change servers then why would you feel like an in-game vote would be an accurate representation of the whether or not people will switch?

Because sadly enough, people would actually press 1 or 2, but are too lazy to say much else.

Originally Posted by ryebone

Ideally if 12 people were to vote yes, we could use the moveserver tool to automatically move all 12 people to the other server.

This^
I was also thinking of this because it was proposed a while ago; however, I didn't know how it turned out so I didn't bother including it in the matter.

[sunshineduck]

a vote to collect opinions is different than actually moving people to other servers, which is something that i support but is unrealistic to expect from nobo any time soon

[King!]

>a vote to collect opinions is different than actually moving people to other servers, which is something that i support but is unrealistic to expect from nobo any time soon

It's actually not that big of a deal to move people to another server because lam added a command to do that I think.

[Threevenge]

Originally Posted by King!

>a vote to collect opinions is different than actually moving people to other servers, which is something that i support but is unrealistic to expect from nobo any time soon

It's actually not that big of a deal to move people to another server because lam added a command to do that I think.

Is it necessary? This seems like something the community should be able to police itself without giving more power to admins. If the issue is that people might troll so moving all 12 at once will deter that I assure you it's not a guarantee they won't abuse this system either. I can imagine trolls voting yes and leaving as soon as everybody gets moved to the second ladder. It'd be an easy way to get a player who is auto-joining into the active server if you didn't want to move.

[King!]

*shrug* It's not necessary, but if lot's of people still play ladder I think it would make it alot easier to get a 2nd server going.

You can raise the player slots to 40 or whatever then too. I don't see what's abusable about it(any more than any other vote), if you only get moved if you vote yes and the player slots are increased.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by King!

>a vote to collect opinions is different than actually moving people to other servers, which is something that i support but is unrealistic to expect from nobo any time soon

It's actually not that big of a deal to move people to another server because lam added a command to do that I think.

you have to type in the ip/port/pass combo as well as the full name (including quotation marks if the name contains spaces or special characters) every time you move someone, so it's a bit unwieldy to move more than a couple people at a time since a lot of people will just move back to the first server before you are finished moving everyone over. believe me i've tried

[King!]

>you have to type in the ip/port/pass combo as well as the full name (including quotation marks if the name contains spaces or special characters) every time you move someone, so it's a bit unwieldy to move more than a couple people at a time since a lot of people will just move back to the first server before you are finished moving everyone over. believe me i've tried

Right that's why it should be a ladder command.

E.g. vote start_new_ball_ladder

Then if 12 or more people vote 1 the ladder script moves all the 1 voters to the new server. Should be doable, but I don't know whats going on with the ladder code these days, I think nobo is porting it from php to java?

[sunshineduck]

yah, afaik nobo doesn't want any new projects (like that command) to be coded until he's done porting it, so aki is just twiddling his thumbs atm

[Zero]

thats because the mods banned so many active players

[AzzedariuSuiradezza]

Second ladder is sooo last season.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by AzzedariuSuiradezza

Second ladder is sooo last season.

altitude is so last season imo

[zz-]

I haven't read all of this thread, but 26 players is pretty much the worst server size possible. High enough to keep people from going to a new server when one is full, low enough to prevent enough people agreeing to start games on another server. 12, 18, 36, 50, whatever, they're all better than 26.

[Threevenge]

Originally Posted by zz-

I haven't read all of this thread, but 26 players is pretty much the worst server size possible. High enough to keep people from going to a new server when one is full, low enough to prevent enough people agreeing to start games on another server. 12, 18, 36, 50, whatever, they're all better than 26.

I like the idea of something around 36, at least there's a better chance of starting a second ladder with that.

[undertheinfluence]

I think at the point where the server might be increased to 36, you might as well make it even bigger because more players can never really hurt the server at the point where you have so many players that they are going to DEFINITELY start another ladder.

[elxir]

all the good players will juke their way to the new server, at which point all the bad players will follow

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by elxir

all the good players will juke their way to the new server, at which point all the bad players will follow

at which point paradigm almost kills ladder.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

at which point paradigm almost kills ladder.

1. Make leggo as ladder admin
2. ban para
3. World peace!

[elxir]

i've never seen a player with a worse skill/**** talking ratio than paradigm

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

1. Make leggo as ladder admin
2. ban para
3. World peace!

[kolobos]

Originally Posted by zz-

I haven't read all of this thread, but 26 players is pretty much the worst server size possible. High enough to keep people from going to a new server when one is full, low enough to prevent enough people agreeing to start games on another server. 12, 18, 36, 50, whatever, they're all better than 26.

This.
Increasing the limit is the easiest solution, even changing it to 30 would make a huge difference.

[zz-]

So....... any chance we can change the server size? Seems everyone agrees that a change is in order. With this and the new maps not being added or basically anything at all being done despite overwhelming consensus about these and more issues, it's no wonder this game is fading.

Just now i logged in to play, but oops, the server is full, i waited 10 minutes for the auto-join but why should I wait longer when I can just go play some more quake live.

[nobodyhome]

Yes, I can change the server size. Just need to confirm with phong if that's ok (don't want to potentially increase server load on him without him knowing ahead of time).

[elxir]

for the record i added a new map...two days ago

[zz-]

Yay two consecutive posts that are joy-inducing. didnt mean to sound so dreary in my post but its kinda a chronic problem with alti (everyone agrees something should be done and it takes a long time for it to happen.)

look 4ward to playing on the new map

[Jayfourke]

Altitude Ladder actually changing due to a consensus from the players? Truly, 'tis an historical moment.

[phong]

A US server side increase is fine, but to help balance the joy-inducing announcements, I'll be taking down the euro server at the end of the month.

[landyowner]

What. Why?