A Whole Bunch of TBD Ladder Season 4 Statistics

[soccernamlak]

Before I begin, let me note a few things:

- This is similar to my post here regarding Ball Ladder Statistics

- Unlike Ball, I do not really play TBD. So later when I delve into characteristics of top ranked players and make suggestions, know that this is from a statistics point of view, not a TBD player's point of view. I would love to hear your comments and suggestions.

That being said, let's get started, shall we?


It's the end of Season 4 for Altitude, so it's time to run through the numbers here. Word of caution: there are plenty of images in this post.


Summary

- There were a total of 339 players.

- The average ranking was 1578.12

- The average number of matches was 54.95 played per player


Countries of Representation

Before delving into the rankings, kills, bombing runs, etc., I thought it would be fun to look at representation of TBD Ladder Players.

This is a simple bar graph of number of players per represented country excluding the US:



And this includes the US player base:



A pie chart roughly detailing percent of players per country in ladder:



In summary, we have a huge US player base followed by the UK and then a roughly equal number of Netherlands, Canadian, French, and German players. These stats follow closely with Ball Ladder, with the exception of a greater percent of French Players in TBD than in Ball. In addition, US players make up the majority of players (instead of the minority majority in Ball).

Streaks!

Just a quick visual of the number of players with their associated Win/Loss streaks:



The take-away here is a lot of the lesser games played players will fall in the 0-1 W/L streaks as their best, but the majority of regulars will top out between 2-5 streaks. In addition, losing streaks were noticeably higher per count than winning streaks, which is opposite of what we saw in Ball Ladder (roughly equal per streak).

[soccernamlak]

Now, as in Ball Ladder, there are two main topics I wanted to tackle. First was this idea that the more games you played, the higher your ranking will become. Intuitively, part of this makes sense: a better player will need a few games to settle at their baseline ranking. Further, a frequent player will hopefully improve as the season progresses, meaning that their ranking should improve as number of games increase.

That being said, as nobo explained in a previous thread, the way the ladder ranking system is setup fosters an environment where the higher the ranking, the more the individual will need to work to continue winning games and ranking up.

The second topic is what factor of playing (if any) contributes the most towards ranking. Is there a correlation between how many time you bomb per game and ranking? What about kills or deaths?

That being said, let's look at some data.

Ranking vs. Number of Games Played

First, the baseline: all ladder players and their rankings:




Players > 50 Games Played (ignore the 2007 Legend):



The take-away here is that for regular-players, there really isn't any correlation between games played and rankings (ignoring that the top ranked player had one of the highest amount of games played). However, there is some correlation (R2=0.39) when including all players, which reinforces that as you start to play, your score can increase, but you will reach a threshold (a personal one) at which point playing more games will not help your ranking significantly unless you significantly improve.

These conclusions mirrored Ball Ladder fairly well, with the correlation here being slightly better (2%).


What Influences Rankings?

The question I ask here is what influences rankings? If you want to improve, is there an area you should specifically target to win games? Or is it an overall composition of the player that influences ranking?


Let's first look at Kills.

Ranking vs. Total Kills:



Ranking vs. Kills/Game:



We see here that there is a fairly decent correlation between Total Number of Kills and Ranking. However, it is important to note that our good players (>2200) still fell in both categories of high and low kills. Thus, it is more important to look at kills/game. Here, we see almost an exponential function at work here. Our best players killed between 15-25 times per game (again, remembering that game length is at work here individually). Players that didn't kill enough or killed too much were not highly ranked. Which brings us to the point of TBD: not only protect your base, but destroy the base of the opponent. If you cannot kill the opponent's defense, you can't expect a good bombing run (sometimes). On the opposite hand, if you are primarily hunting, you are neglecting the bombing aspect of the game.

[soccernamlak]

Next we'll compare assists (total and per game):

Total Assists and Rankings:



Assists / Game and Rankings:



So here, we see a weaker correlation than kills for total assists against rankings. Again, some of our top rated players did not have a huge number of assists.

If we look at assists/game, we really see an almost true scatter: no real correlation. I would say our top layers ranged between 8-18 assists per game. I would venture to guess here that you need some assists (which lead to kills), but not being able to consistently finish off a target (high assists) or not shooting anyone (low assists) results in poor ratings.

Finally, comparing deaths.

Ranking vs. Total Deaths:



Ranking vs. Deaths/Game:



Again, we see a rough correlation between total deaths and rating; however, our top players will well represented at either end of the spectrum. If we look at the Deaths per game statistic, we see a huge clump in the middle between 15-22 deaths per game. Die too little? You are just running away from everything. Die too much? You can't effectively bomb or protect your base. However, the fact that the highest rated player and the lowest rated player have pretty similar deaths/game leads me to believe this really doesn't affect your rating. Dying too much is bad. Dying on average doesn't help you.

[soccernamlak]

Now that we've compared the "big" picture of kills, assists, and deaths, let's look at defensive tactics. First, kills on the bomb carrier:



Remember that our top ranked players had between 15-25 kills/game. It looks that 3-6 bomb carrier kills (12%-40%) are characteristic of top players. This is a bit different than Ball, in which a higher overall percentage of kills of the top players focused on the ball carrier. So, I'd venture a guess and say TBD puts more emphasis on overall killing (bomb carrier + their convoy) versus Ball (just kill the person with the ball). Further, we see that most low rated players have <4 kills on the Bomb Carrier / Game. Hence, I'd say here that killing the bomb carrier is important to winning your matches (obviously). Low rated players aren't killing the bomb carrier as much as they should, leading to their base undoubtedly being hit.

What about diffusing the bomb? Is there any correlation between ranking and diffusing?



Short answer? No. High and low rated players ranged from not really diffusing the bomb to diffusing it many times in a game. Basically, someone should be diffusing the bomb, but a high ranked player doesn't necessarily have to in maintaining their rating.

[soccernamlak]

Now we'll look at the offensive mechanisms of TBD: Picking up and dropping the bomb are just part of it; hitting the base and causing damage is the other half.

Let's look at pickup first:



Again, no real correlation. High rated players could do multiple pickups in the game or not that many at all. Someone needs to move the bomb in order to hit the opponent's base; however, defensive measures are just as important. One thing to note, though, is that you need to pickup the bomb to have the chance of having a higher rating. Pickup up the bomb doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a higher rating, but rarely picking up the bomb means you'll hover closer to the baseline of 1500.

Now dropping the bomb (note this isn't exactly where the bomb is dropped):



No real correlation. High rated players either never grabbed the bomb to begin with, or dropped it plenty of times. Note the bottom edge of the scatter does increase, so the worse ratings per bomb drop increases the more it is dropped. Here, I'd argue that you need to release the bomb to help increase your rating somewhat. This implies that you've picked up the bomb to begin with as we stated above.


More importantly with dropping is hitting the base:



This is actually stronger correlation that the previous two. Still weak, but R2 is almost 2x greater than pickup. Again, top rated players were scattered across the spectrum, but bottom rated players had an increase in ranking as hitting the base per game increased. This should make sense: the more you hit the base, the more damage to the base you do. The more damage, the higher your chances of destroying and winning the game.

Speaking of damage, we all know you can have a wide range of hits on the base (from it being partially blocked to triple gold hits):

EDIT: I was corrected by SSD as this is damage per game, not damage per hit.



So weak correlation between rating and average damage per game. Again, top rated players varied while bottom rated players increased as average damage increased. So we see here that more damage = better chance you are helping destroy the opponent's base and win. Note, though, that being a bomb hog may or may not pay out for you. There are a few players with >40 damager per game. While only two players, one was rated decently higher than the other (near baseline), but neither were a "top-rated" player. Basically, we can surmise that offensive tactics require good bomb runs and good offense (kills, etc.), not whoring the bomb the entire time.

[soccernamlak]

Finally, for fun:



This just gives you a visual of pickups, drops, and hits per game per player and how their ratings compared. Thought it was interesting to see how quickly it starts clustering towards 0 as the stages of bombing progresses. Obviously this is influenced by being killed before dropping, needing to drop in neutral maps, hitting turrets, and missing the base during a drop.

So What's The Secret?

You want to increase your ranking, but how? Well, based on my analysis, you need to focus on assisting and killing while maintaining low deaths. You also need to figure out if you are a better defensive or offensive player.

So, what do you need to do to help improve your ranking?

1. Killing is important. Top rated players had at least 15 kills/game. You can't just solely sit back and run bombs: you need to be pro-active. And if you can't kill, you need to work on assists (10/game). Even partially killing another player is better than not killing at all. Note, though, that killings is far more important than assists. Top rated players and bottom rated players could have the same number of assists per game, but the killing bottomed-out at a much higher rating.

2. Expect to die. Here, dying doesn't matter to an extent: most players hovered around 20 deaths/game. Not dying that much means you are hurting yourself and your team (trying to hide/run from fights could be detrimental to your victory). Dying too much means you aren't helping on offense or defense (especially since TBD isn't a 3 second respawn).

3. Figure out if you are offensive or defensive as a player.

3a. If you are defensive, 3-6 kills/game should be on the bomb carrier with 1-2 diffuses per game. In addition, your kill/death ratio should be higher than your offensive counterparts. However, you still should attempt a few bomb runs in the game: top rated players in a defensive position still attempted offensive pushes when necessary.

3b. If you are offensive, you really don't need to worry about killing the bomb carrier (perhaps only 12% of your kills) or diffusing. Instead, worry about high number of pickup, drops, and hitting the base; all things a defensive player shouldn't really worry about. However, don't focus on high damager/base hit: top rated players varied heavily between light to heavy damage. The key here is to at least hit the opponent's base.


Before finishing here, I want to point out again the offensive/defensive standpoint in TBD. This is completely opposite of Ball. We see in TBD that high rated players are either focused on killing bomb carriers and diffusing the bomb, or picking up, dropping, and hitting the opponent's base. This is evident by the wide range of values for each of these graphs of top-rated players. In Ball, however, we saw that top rated players were ones who were offensive in nature, maintaining a high (compared to other players) goals/game and assist/game ratio.

I think this is evident by the game play mechanism at work here. In TBD, there is a high value placed on both offensive and defense. As TBD games are typically much longer in length than Ball games, greater patience is required. In addition, a strong defense is necessary due to the longer times of offensive runs. Whereas in Ball, the quick pace means you need defense, but best players are constantly pushing in offensive runs.

Personally, this presents a fundamental issue with rating systems between the two modes. I think a good, strong defense is needed for both modes. Whales are invaluable in both TBD and Ball, for example. Yet the same player can move up in the ratings higher in TBD than Ball. TBD rewards good defensive players with high ratings. Ball doesn't really reward good defensive players with top ratings. So while randa/loopy might dominate the Top 25 of Ball, we see good whales in the Top 25 of TBD (with your offensive TBD players as well in their randas).

I hope this shines some insight into Season 4 of ladder. Let me know if you have any questions or want to see any additional data displayed from Season 4.

[Ribilla]

Thanks for the post soccer. I think that kill dot all on his lonesome might be me.

[sunshineduck]

average base damage isn't per hit, it's per game

[soccernamlak]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Thanks for the post soccer. I think that kill dot all on his lonesome might be me.

Yep!

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

average base damage isn't per hit, it's per game

Ah, thank you for pointing that out. I don't think that changes things too much though...

[mssv]

Hey nice job on collecting all that data, I've been following ladder statistics too and draw my own conclusions;

The ability to read a match was kind of represented by win ratio, and only the players able to translate that ability to read the match into kills/defuses/basehit/bombckills, that is the ability to execute that reading, were the only good players. Sadly I'm talking about less than 5 guys.

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by mssv

Hey nice job on collecting all that data, I've been following ladder statistics too and draw my own conclusions;

The ability to read a match was kind of represented by win ratio, and only the players able to translate that ability to read the match into kills/defuses/basehit/bombckills, that is the ability to execute that reading, were the only good players. Sadly I'm talking about less than 5 guys.

sample size plz

[elixirwithani]

fixed 4 u bro

Originally Posted by mssv

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[Radium]

lol'd
.......

[leggomyeggo]

i get it. it's funny because it's true. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[classicallad]

Nobody can kill me like mssv can, quite literally if he wants to kill you he will, its all down to his positioning. I really think your jealous actually xD

But whatever, keep troll'n =)

[elxir]

Originally Posted by classicallad

Nobody can kill me like mssv can, quite literally if he wants to kill you he will, its all down to his positioning. I really think your jealous actually xD

But whatever, keep troll'n =)

i'm not trollin bro, your team is full of laggers and mouse control

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by classicallad

Nobody can kill me like mssv can, quite literally if he wants to kill you he will, its all down to his positioning. I really think your jealous actually xD

But whatever, keep troll'n =)

it's not his positioning, it's that i can be on the other side of a rock where i think that he can't actually shoot me, but lo and behold, he fires on the complete other side of the rock and instakills me. and before anyone comments, i'm not complaining simply about the fact that his shots are behind me, i'm complaining about the fact that i think i'm safe so i don't try to maneuver anywhere and out of nowhere, i instantly die. if he didn't play recoilless, it wouldn't be as bad. but, since he does, he simply needs to stay within range of you for a second or so to kill you which means that before i can react to him lag shooting me, i'm dead.

[Radium]

yea that dude has some MaSSiVe lag
haha get it

[mssv]

The fact that you guys are talking about lag and kills means you don't understand anything.

It's all about map control and how to make your team to have it. If you check my last season stats, I was top 5 on every single stat (removing outliers with less than 10 games), that includes killspm, basehits, bckills, bdefuses and a 70+% win rate.

If kills alone would matter why Rib had such a crappy win rate and base hit? Well, it's all about forcing map control.

Since people fail so much at being aggressive to get map control in the middle and they stay close to base whoring kills, the only solution I found to get map control is pushing alone. So basically I time it so I start moving a bit before the other team is about to grab the bomb and push the bc while he is close to his base. Either I kill the bc or not their push will be delayed enough so my team cross already half of the map and force them to take defence position. By that time I already spawn and join our push. Rinse and repeat.
So yeah, map control and push with a ball of death with power ups, easy peasy.

To get more clear what I meant: a guy like mled for instance, have a great match reading and a impeccable execution and timing, that's why his stats + win rate are overall high and well balanced, that's what it makes him such a strong player, he's able to carry a team.

Sadly no one on that forum is talking about map control tactics or plane build for x or y map. But that's because this community is small and there's not enough teams like Sammich (which are far ahead from rest of teams) or enough players like mled to mark a trend so people stop whoring around base and get the competitiveness a step further. Imagine 50 teams with Sammich's teamplay? This game would be so amazing, yet it's full of noobs screaming lag.

[Demuyt]

Originally Posted by mssv

The fact that you guys are talking about lag and kills means you don't understand anything.

It's all about map control and how to make your team to have it. If you check my last season stats, I was top 5 on every single stat (removing outliers with less than 10 games), that includes killspm, basehits, bckills, bdefuses and a 70+% win rate.

If kills alone would matter why Rib had such a crappy win rate and base hit? Well, it's all about forcing map control.

Since people fail so much at being aggressive to get map control in the middle and they stay close to base whoring kills, the only solution I found to get map control is pushing alone. So basically I time it so I start moving a bit before the other team is about to grab the bomb and push the bc while he is close to his base. Either I kill the bc or not their push will be delayed enough so my team cross already half of the map and force them to take defence position. By that time I already spawn and join our push. Rinse and repeat.
So yeah, map control and push with a ball of death with power ups, easy peasy.

To get more clear what I meant: a guy like mled for instance, have a great match reading and a impeccable execution and timing, that's why his stats + win rate are overall high and well balanced, that's what it makes him such a strong player, he's able to carry a team.

Sadly no one on that forum is talking about map control tactics or plane build for x or y map. But that's because this community is small and there's not enough teams like Sammich (which are far ahead from rest of teams) or enough players like mled to mark a trend so people stop whoring around base and get the competitiveness a step further. Imagine 50 teams with Sammich's teamplay? This game would be so amazing, yet it's full of noobs screaming lag.

I haven't been playing in a long time but if I merge what I remember of your playstyle and several other factors together I can tell you the following;

You use mouse, and you lag. When using biplane, or pretty much any other plane that relies on an accurate aim, the mouse is a HUGE advantage. A mouse biplane can inflict a lot more damage to a fleeing enemy or to a far positioned foe because of the said accuracy, and a laggy biplane can be at all times a move ahead of the others.
I'm not saying you don't know how to position yourself correctly, in fact you do it very well, your killing method is very good in itself (lag-less) but is taken to excellent by the mouse-lag couple.

Rib is a mouse user who was also qualified as "using an aimbot" and "teleporting", yet while defending his cause, he did not try to fully justify himself, but rather accepted the advantage the mouse and lag gave him and pushed himself to become even better (asking to be taught bomb-running etc.).

What you talked about in the post I am quoting is equivalent to Rib's strategies in becoming better with the full support of the accurate aiming and unpredictable movement; however, Rib realizes he has that advantage and does not call every person annoyed by it a noob, he tries to compensate for the advantage by investing as much as himself as he can in personal skill. That's why people don't qq much about Rib. Everytime the name mssv is mentioned on these forums, we get paragraphs from both sides disgressing mouse and the lag, with you mistaking the considerable advantage those two offer for personal skill. I think that's what sets people off the most.

All I'm saying is you have a very good level, but a considerable deal of it is offered by the usage of mouse and your lag, yet you aknowledge it as your personal skill, and this

"Sadly I'm talking about less than 5 guys."

annoys everyone coming from you. Leggo, Lix and Radium are not noobs, there's just keyboard users who have had to adapt since the apparition of mouse and don't want the mouse users to be arrogant on top of all.

[mssv]

Originally Posted by Demuyt

I haven't been playing in a long time but if I merge what I remember of your playstyle and several other factors together I can tell you the following;

You use mouse, and you lag. When using biplane, or pretty much any other plane that relies on an accurate aim, the mouse is a HUGE advantage. A mouse biplane can inflict a lot more damage to a fleeing enemy or to a far positioned foe because of the said accuracy, and a laggy biplane can be at all times a move ahead of the others.
I'm not saying you don't know how to position yourself correctly, in fact you do it very well, your killing method is very good in itself (lag-less) but is taken to excellent by the mouse-lag couple.

Rib is a mouse user who was also qualified as "using an aimbot" and "teleporting", yet while defending his cause, he did not try to fully justify himself, but rather accepted the advantage the mouse and lag gave him and pushed himself to become even better (asking to be taught bomb-running etc.).

What you talked about in the post I am quoting is equivalent to Rib's strategies in becoming better with the full support of the accurate aiming and unpredictable movement; however, Rib realizes he has that advantage and does not call every person annoyed by it a noob, he tries to compensate for the advantage by investing as much as himself as he can in personal skill. That's why people don't qq much about Rib. Everytime the name mssv is mentioned on these forums, we get paragraphs from both sides disgressing mouse and the lag, with you mistaking the considerable advantage those two offer for personal skill. I think that's what sets people off the most.

All I'm saying is you have a very good level, but a considerable deal of it is offered by the usage of mouse and your lag, yet you aknowledge it as your personal skill, and this

"Sadly I'm talking about less than 5 guys."

annoys everyone coming from you. Leggo, Lix and Radium are not noobs, there's just keyboard users who have had to adapt since the apparition of mouse and don't want the mouse users to be arrogant on top of all.

Loopy is my best plane, I can kill more and have a bigger impact with it. Is that also lag? If I do better with loopy than with reco what would you call it, Hax?

[classicallad]

Hmm, i think when lix mentions klf being full of laggers and mouse control, yes we are mainly european but to my knowledge mssv is the only mouse user =s

I actually find that being a european player in an american server impedes me just as much as it may impede my american counterparts. For example setups that rely on good aim, HC, trick have an advantage > me as a european player as i realise im hit ms/s before my screen updates it.

The bomb code is a weird one too when a mix of euro's and yanks play a game as sometimes we are sure that we have blocked successfully only to see a full hit scored, and vica versa. So when you talk about lag i don't think your taking into account that this affects both parties actually.

Going back to mssv, my statement was made from having mainly played against him in a euro server where we both have uber low pings, if i ever go to the us ill make sure to log on and see the difference for myself but until then i can only back my statement up by saying that the lag difference impedes both parties in one way or another.

[mssv]

Also I think ppl is not used to fight against recos, secondary range is not that short like it could feel, plus bullets have some spread up and down which makes corners a bit tricky. Is not like I have warp and insta laser, ppl see me coming and have some time to react. And yes, I can understand those lag complains when I play on NA servers, but the funny thing is that when I have 20 ping I'm playing much better just because it feels smoother. So it's not my problem ppl not adapting to that, not like it's new to them, I always get focus as primary target...

But this thread was very interesting with those statistics, I just shared my thoughts about it, like ir or not, don't derail the thread, maybe bring your thoughts about OP conclusions?

[Demuyt]

Originally Posted by mssv

Loopy is my best plane, I can kill more and have a bigger impact with it. Is that also lag? If I do better with loopy than with reco what would you call it, Hax?

I never talked about Loopy. I was only talking about the biplane, I don't care how well you perform with the earlier. What I was pointing out is how you get your biplane kills, not how many you get. Mouse-lag makes your biplane a better biplane than it's supposed to be for equivalent skill levels.
Once more, I'm not saying you're bad. Your kills with loopy are certainly due to skill. I'm not going to stamp a "lag" seal on every aspect of your play.

[Demuyt]

But yeah all this is purely on a "europeans connection to NA servers" referential so I guess there's no need to clutter up this thread.

[sunshineduck]

@mssv

the reason people complain about you and rib so much is that you play very lag abusive styles. both of you attack at angles of approach where it minimizes the negative impact of lag and maximizes the positive impact, albeit from very different angles, with you flying in from high 90% of the time and rib being low 99.9% of the time. your style is obviously way more aggressive since you fly in while rib waits for the enemy to come to him, which is why you have much higher objective-based statistics. winrate is essentially meaningless in the new rating system given an adequate amount of games played, rating is what really counts. the concept is the same, you stay at the edge of the screen and attack with the small end of your plane pointed right at them so it takes a high level of mechanical skill and reflexes (which most players including myself do not have) in order to locate you, aim, and fire before you kill them, where you also have an advantage because you use aimbot (mouse). really good players like dragon make rib **** his pants because he can zone him out super hard and make him change his rather static playstyle.

i also think the "lag is just as bad a disadvantage for euros" isn't that solid an argument even disregarding playstyles because it really isn't just as bad. if you're on a team with less than 5 euro vs a team of 5 US i could maybe see the getting hit by things that aren't hitting you issue being a disadvantage for your your team overall, but it's not any more a disadvantage than when the situation is flipped, and us players have to play against a euro-heavy team. the difference is that you hit everything from the US on your screen when you shoot them, whereas we have to significantly adjust our aim.

[[Y]]

I don't understand why you guys try to argue with him every time this comes up.

It's obvious his massive ego won't accept how much his ping inflates his perceived skill.

[mssv]

@ssd

The positioning you are talking about it's true but the way I play, it it's not me doing a good job at killing, it's the other guys committing mistakes and me punishing them for it. So most of the time my kills are kind of safe kills, no lag would make any difference since I don't engage when the other dude is well positioned or keeping an eye on me. And there's a big difference with some players, it's very hard for me to kill them because they are always in a good position. Then again, it's not me doing anything good, it's the other players not paying enough attention, and that's not to blame lag but themselves.

Also, what ppl describes about me killing them when they thought they were safe, I've experience that against other biplanes but, only in dogfighting and against 250+ pingers. Against other 120 ping users like me the difference it's so tiny it makes no sense to blame the lag. Tho I think the problem for me is that I have some random ping spikes to 180 when playing on NA which would make sense that it would mess the other guy timing, yet that happens from time to time...

About Dragon being a strong player, well, if you call base hugging and gold bar farming, skill, then yes. Tho that's far from what imho it's a good player since I really dislike ultra defensive play styles.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by mssv

About Dragon being a strong player, well, if you call base hugging and gold bar farming, skill, then yes.

lol .

[sunshineduck]

the thing is that the kills that you consider safe are unattainable for players that aren't using mouse control and don't have your ping. your positioning is obviously extremely good but your ping and impeccable aim give you a distinct advantage over someone like radium, who plays a similar positioning-based playstyle on the upper area of cave. he is far easier to zone because he's not coming in full speed with the amount of dps you can bring, especially since he has US ping which gives him a slight but noticeable disadvantage in that extra fraction of a second that enemies have to react to him. i think that the qq about you having no skill is pretty far overblown and an excessive reaction to your playstyle which is obviously very effective in ladder, but arguing that lag/mc doesn't give you a distinct advantage for your specific playstyle is rather silly imho.

regardless of whether or not you think dragon's playstyle is effective (personally i would point to his consistent top-5 ranking in basically every season so far, but that's beside the point) you have to acknowledge his ridiculous aim and reflexes which are the best among active altitude players imo. especially since he uses keyboard

[CCN]

Hey guys, we talking about ping?

Sup.

[classicallad]

Yeah, gotta agree with ssd on the dragon point, his aim and reflex / positioning are amazing, methink mssv hating on randas in general =P

In addition though i dont believe at all the opinion that mouse is OP or gives advantages over keyboard users, thats just lame and excuses for lazy players, i exclusively play keyboard and find i can be far more dextrous in my explodet than i could be with mouse, it's a niche market sure, but it aint beating keyboard overall.

[sunshineduck]

mouse is way better for aiming. it's pretty hard to circle in whale as mouse control so i'm not sure it's viable for that plane tbh

[Wok3N^]

Originally Posted by mssv

@ssd

The positioning you are talking about it's true but the way I play, it it's not me doing a good job at killing, it's the other guys committing mistakes and me punishing them for it. So most of the time my kills are kind of safe kills, no lag would make any difference since I don't engage when the other dude is well positioned or keeping an eye on me. And there's a big difference with some players, it's very hard for me to kill them because they are always in a good position. Then again, it's not me doing anything good, it's the other players not paying enough attention, and that's not to blame lag but themselves.

Also, what ppl describes about me killing them when they thought they were safe, I've experience that against other biplanes but, only in dogfighting and against 250+ pingers. Against other 120 ping users like me the difference it's so tiny it makes no sense to blame the lag. Tho I think the problem for me is that I have some random ping spikes to 180 when playing on NA which would make sense that it would mess the other guy timing, yet that happens from time to time...

About Dragon being a strong player, well, if you call base hugging and gold bar farming, skill, then yes. Tho that's far from what imho it's a good player since I really dislike ultra defensive play styles.

Have you ever seen dragon play?

[Ingbo]

lol mssv hating on dragon. mssv have u ever stopped to consider that the reason ur win% is so high is because u play about 3-5 times less games than most other good tbd player do per season? obv if i played half my games as underrated (which u do) id have amazing stats to, and that goes for most of the other good players too.
clearly if u think dragon 'stays at base and whores' u have no clue whatsoever about how he plays.
if u were to play as many games as the other tbd players i can assure u that ur win% wouldnt be as 'remarkable' as it is. any good player only playing about a 100 games per season is gona have a high win% like are u for real?
and loopy being ur main plane like wut? ur entire last season was only biplane in both game modes.

[Radium]

yea i started last season 25-5
and then ladder crashed and everything was erased
pretty sure I would have evened out eventually anyway though

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by Radium

yea i started last season 25-5
and then ladder crashed and everything was erased
pretty sure I would have evened out eventually anyway though

massive difference between coming in once in a while and playing when everyone else is pushing the rating differences forward and just abusing the fact that u dont pull any weight in the seasons like the ppl playing the most and playing the entire season.

[Smushface]

Ha, every half decent player in this game understands map control by now. It comes with time and the TBD base has been around for a while.

I can't believe you guys focused on his lag and didn't even make fun of him for his high-and-mighty "i push by myself and singlehandedly win my games since no one else understands altitude because they're stupid whores" little bit he went on.

[mssv]

Hehe I love how cowards become brave when they feel protected by the crowd, would you mind share your thoughts about those statistic to en-light us?

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by mssv

Hehe I love how cowards become brave when they feel protected by the crowd, would you mind share your thoughts about those statistic to en-light us?

cant tell who ur refering to here, is this to me?