APL 9 Week 4

[darknietzsche]

APL 9 Week 4 Sunday 28th April 2013, 2PM EDT/6PM GMT

For this tournament we will do a home and away round robin style tournament consisting of each team playing each other team twice: once home and once away. I have created a google spreadsheet seen at the link below:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0E&output=html

I originally scheduled 2 games a week please let me know if you would like to change this.

Map pool:
Round 7:cave, middleground, grotto, fallout, scrapyard
Round 8:asteroids, core, mayhem, lost city, underpark

Servers: Top games: APL 1,2,3,4. Bottom games: Ladder servers 1,2 (ask a ladder admin to start you the tournament) If playing in apl or ladder servers, and the server crashes, teams are given 1 min from the time another team gets all their players in the server that were in before. If a sub is needed since another player either can't reconnect or disappears, it does not count as the one sub from the sub rule. Teams may choose to have everyone crash then start, or circle their spawn then start in case of a server crash. If two teams can't come to a consensus, players must crash before starting.

Format: Bo3 Round Robin. Top 2 teams will play for championship after regular season in one bo7.

Home Team: Chooses server for first two games, and starts veto. Loser of each game chooses next map.

All the other rules in the rules thread.

[classicallad]

KLF > IL 2-1
KLF > Sammich 2-1

[evilarsenal]

This APL is crazy, 4 teams out of 5 and any two can still make it to final round, or first and 2nd place....everyone is beating each other 2-1.... thank you everyone <3 where are ze highlights

[Ingbo]

can we please make a rule about ppl using their names when they play as well or at least telling everyone who they are, really dont want to play against 10 unknown FROs next week :/

[Slender]

Make a list on the OP.

I'm playing as KLF.sovyat

[darknietzsche]

I personally do not think it is a big deal with name changes assuming no name is used of another player and the team keeps its tag. This has never been a problem that I have seen complained about before except for the one instance last SL which prompted to me add that rule, so I don't feel the need to change it now. If you ask who we are, I will tell you if you are that concerned assuming we even do a name change.

My main point you had about a month to add comments about changes which I extensively asked about between the start of APL and end of SL, the last week of regular season is not a good time to ask me to change rules.

Also, if a team is accepting a forfeit over a reschedule please post in this thread.

[Ingbo]

no this has never been an issue cause no one has never done it to the extent that u guys have (that i know of) where LITERALLY ever player has a name that no one recognizes, u might sometimes see 1-3 people doing it on a team on average, and u guys did it on ur entire roster, i honestly dont see how timing (last week) is important for any reason at all other than some misguided sense of continuity; a problem has been lifted when u guys where the first team ever (to my knowledge) to have their entire roster change their names at match day, how is that not a problem when the other team has no idea who u are, its clearly impossible to strategize?

also; why must my team go through the hastle of having to remember all ur new random nicknames? if this is something thats proposed to fix this ill just start urging our entire roster to change their names on every gameday.

btw this is something ive done plenty as well, and ive never realized how much problems it caused until i played a team where i couldnt recognize any player for 3 games straight, id defo be happy about playing on my account name if other ppl did it on theirs.

edit: just to make it clear since i dont know how harsh this post is going to seem to other people, this isnt me thinking fro did it to gain an edge or anything, but it is something i think its creating a problem, especially in lineups like fro where its unclear (to me and klf at least) who is even playing (since were not familiar with ur players in a way that we would be with sammich for instance).

its really not a big hastle having to play on ur own name.

[darknietzsche]

Well, I can attest that I have seen name changes of this extent plenty of times. I have not been in FRO all the time either, and I never have had a personal problem with it assuming people aren't trying to act as another in the game. I mean I don't mind changing the rule to use your standard name, but I mean it is going to be pretty hard to control because some people change their names constantly, so what if someone changes their name on a saturday night they can't play sunday? Also, I would prefer that multiple players from multiple teams come with this argument. I am not going to change/add/delete a rule because one player has a problem with it because I do not see the point and the 5 or 6 current admins or past admins have never mentioned that this may be or is a problem.

I am not trying to be offensive or anything, just trying to understand your point of view which does not coincide with mine in this regard. I am not saying my way is correct, but I would like some precedence before changing a rule.

[Ingbo]

right that makes sense and i understand u better now, can we at least urge our players to play under names we all recognize?

[sunshineduck]

fro has done team-wide (barring people who forgot to save their name change, who traditionally get benched during the first game anyway) name changes pretty much every week for every apl we've been entered in, dating back to when beagle was still actively playing for the team. sammich did a team-wide name change when they played against you (newmetawhatever) and nobody raised any complaints then. personally i have no troubles identifying players on other teams regardless of name simply by looking at their ace badge/ping/plane even vs euro teams where everyone is basically ace 10 and 140 ping, and at the absolute worst case i can just use altbouncer and look it up.

at no point did anyone on any team we've played this season ask us to identify ourselves (which we gladly would have), and we even specifically make it a point to change our names as a team in the server at once so it's less of a hassle to identify who everyone is for both members of our teams and the opposition.

like honestly is this mlg or something? the whole name change thing is just a fun thing to do with my teammates that also find it fun, and any supposed tactical advantage we get is offset by how confused apathy is during our matches. i feel like you guys are taking this to like next level srs business, including the whole insistence that everyone crashes at the same time and spawns at exactly the same time during inevitable server dc's. its honestly pretty anti-fun

[Ingbo]

altbouncer doesnt always work that well, it sometimes takes time for it to update player name base, an issue i had a problems with several times when being an admin.

like what do u want me to say about u being able to recognize players on other teams, gfu? clearly u know the alti player base better than i do then.

dont see how its relevant if any of the other teams asked if u guys could tell them who u were or not, i didnt even bother since knowing u guys are from the trolliest team in this apl i didnt think it would lead to much, why give u the satisfaction of turning down that request was my logic.

does it have to be mlg for my team to want to know who u are? srsly....?

[Slender]

Ingbo is pretty right here. As far as team comp goes, deciding who is playing and who is not depends a lot on who is on the other team and not thoroughly map dependant and not recognizing who is who is just troublesome

[DICK van DYKE]

if there's a virgin or twilight reference in there it's probably me
just trying to help out

[JWhatever]

Originally Posted by darknietzsche

Well, I can attest that I have seen name changes of this extent plenty of times. I have not been in FRO all the time either, and I never have had a personal problem with it assuming people aren't trying to act as another in the game. I mean I don't mind changing the rule to use your standard name, but I mean it is going to be pretty hard to control because some people change their names constantly, so what if someone changes their name on a saturday night they can't play sunday? Also, I would prefer that multiple players from multiple teams come with this argument. I am not going to change/add/delete a rule because one player has a problem with it because I do not see the point and the 5 or 6 current admins or past admins have never mentioned that this may be or is a problem.

I am not trying to be offensive or anything, just trying to understand your point of view which does not coincide with mine in this regard. I am not saying my way is correct, but I would like some precedence before changing a rule.

So the sh*t storm from SL 7 week 5 wasn't enough?

-J

[sunshineduck]

it's very mlg to demand that an admin change a rule because you couldn't be bothered to ask team members to identify themselves. i don't really see how you can complain about not knowing who our players were when you literally did not ask, nor did you mention any confusion at all during the games. we were already told that changing our names to not include our team tags was now unacceptable due to some complaints in SL7, and have kept our tags on since.

you can altbouncer search via vapor id, which you can find using the /listplayers function in server. the altbouncer list does not update until someone uploads their played_with.xml list, i can upload mine after we do our name changes if you want.

[Ingbo]

i did just say i understood his standpoint literally the post before u posted if u bothered to read it

[Ingbo]

i def disagree that its an "mlg type demand" in fact i dont even see how u can say its a demand period

[sunshineduck]

its either a rule or it isn't, 'strongly urging' teams to use their real usernames isn't going to change anything. if you actually think it's a significant issue that could affect results of games then you certainly wouldn't be wrong to demand a rule change, otherwise it seems like you're whining for the sake of whining or even making excuses

[Ingbo]

sry i just dont see how me presenting an idea of a rule change can be viewed as me demanding something, its just me saying that i think its annoying to have to through altbouncer to have to know who u are, or having to ask u guys who u are then make notes on that.

i dont see how this can be viewed as me making excuses either, i havent once mentioned results or that i felt we lost cause of it -> it does clearly affect the way we play tho and how well we can organize our plays around maps etc.

it would just save time for everyone not having to work around this, which will take considerable time every week for any solution uve proposed.

if u really wanna go there tho dont get it twisted, nicks or no nicks, u guys will lose this sunday

[Ingbo]

did anyone record the games this week?

[matattack]

lol wait wait I wanna argue too!
Wait no I dont. Changing names is fun. Figuring out people's names are also fun. It can be troublesome at times, I guess? Worth it tho imo xD
I think recorded games come around wed/thurs Gobogo. All of dat editing and time spent recording/sharing is mucho appreciatoz.
Just wanted to point out that this APL is pretty awesome. Just how teams have hightened their gameplay and how it is so close is crazy~! Definitely brings back memories of knowing what its like to be in a competitive situation.
Good luck to everyone this season!

[classicallad]

Yeah i'll second that mat. It's ferociously competitive this time round which is great! Never seen so many great plays in an APL that i can remember. And thanks and kudos to Vanish for all the Spielburg antics ^.^

Im kinda on the fence with the name changing malarky and i'd be a hypocrite if i spoke against it as i do it myself for funs, looking at it another way it comes down to 5 players versus 5 players, so your'e playing the plane not the name i guess.

[matattack]

Yes indeed. Also would like to thank DN for hosting this APL. Having to deal with issues that arise and work them out with people is always a drag so thanks for organizing and being a respectable host!

[Ingbo]

ye i can only agree, great hosting DN!!!! much appreciated

[sunshineduck]

thanks based dn

[VAN1SH1NG]

My vids will probably be up late Tuesday. They won't take me very long to edit this week with only two matches, but I haven't any time to start on them yet.

update: If they are up tonight it is going to be very, very late. Probably more likely at this point to expect them tomorrow afternoon (us mountain time). Still have some other work I am trying to finish up, but almost done and should be able to start editing soon.

[Knipchip]

Great games last Sunday. Let's keep that up!

As for abrupt name changes, it's not in the rules and it definitely does create a slight edge; a slight edge I personally wouldn't be proud of abusing.

[ViPR]

Name changing is fun, especially when a team uses some sort of theme. Example: some tasty mofo sandwiches!

Pretty sure every team uses some sort of communication these days. If an entire team changes their names to something containing similar letters and or symbols this can provide a huge advantage over the other team when they are calling out positions.

Example:

• [FU]......
• [FU]....
• [FU].....
• [FU].......
• [FU]...

The opposite team is forced to call out the types of planes giving them a disadvantage. I think that team name changing should be allowed, but within reason. I'm pretty sure no clan these days would stoop to that level. Actually. maybe IL and definitely FU if they were still around hehe.

To address Ingbo's issue with the matter, I think that ALL team/individual name changes should take place in the APL server with whom you are about to play present. That way there is no/less anonymity about people not being on roster. Of course this would only satisfy the first team played, so another solution would be to post all the name changes on APL registration/team thread. A little bit more work but hey, so worth it to have a name like

(|TheMetaGameIngbo|)

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by ViPR

I'm pretty sure no clan these days would stoop to that level. Actually. maybe IL

?

Charschars

[JWhatever]

Teh fock was the part about IL?

That aside, fully agree with ViPR, especially with the last paragraph.

-J

[sunshineduck]

if anyone had asked me to identify all my players in-game, i would have done so. if they had asked me to post this information in that week's apl thread, no problem ezpz. nobody asked, so i didn't. full disclosure FRO is doing another team-wide name change this week, if you want me to post a list on the forums just tell me in game.

my only issue was ppl demanding/politely asking (srsly thats just semantics bro) for a rule change when nobody brought it up as being an issue during the games or at any point in the two years we've been doing it before.

[Ingbo]

ye its semantics which u obv had to use to the maximum to try and make me look ridic just like ur mlg argument which was also completely taken out of the blue and which is applicable to anything, like me going to mlg and telling them to "chill out nerdz, its not the superbowl"

[matattack]

Chill out Super Bowl it's just mikesol.

[VAN1SH1NG]

Finally getting this up Got distracted yesterday with tbd ladder actually being alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860he65O8nc

I have not done the full game vids yet, but will definitely have them up sometime tomorrow (Thursday).

Some refinements this week...actually bought the font Altitude uses lol and made the bomb dmg info area more like what you see in game.

[wolf'j'max]

Really cool ^.^

[classicallad]

what is mlg?? =/

[Ingbo]

ask ssd, i have no idea why it was brought up here, esp since the issue had been settled before he even joined the discussion rofl.

[sunshineduck]

i started typing that post before your initial edit and before dn replied to your post, so i would not have read any of that obv.

your first post in the thread was

Originally Posted by Ingbo

can we please make a rule about ppl using their names when they play as well or at least telling everyone who they are, really dont want to play against 10 unknown FROs next week :/

which is obviously directed at my team and the first time anyone has ever brought it up as being an issue assuming we kept our original clan tags, which we have done since week 1 when DN made it clear that it was now the standard.

your second post pre-edit (which is all i read before posting) was

Originally Posted by Ingbo

no this has never been an issue cause no one has never done it to the extent that u guys have (that i know of) where LITERALLY ever player has a name that no one recognizes, u might sometimes see 1-3 people doing it on a team on average, and u guys did it on ur entire roster, i honestly dont see how timing (last week) is important for any reason at all other than some misguided sense of continuity; a problem has been lifted when u guys where the first team ever (to my knowledge) to have their entire roster change their names at match day, how is that not a problem when the other team has no idea who u are, its clearly impossible to strategize?

also; why must my team go through the hastle of having to remember all ur new random nicknames? if this is something thats proposed to fix this ill just start urging our entire roster to change their names on every gameday.

btw this is something ive done plenty as well, and ive never realized how much problems it caused until i played a team where i couldnt recognize any player for 3 games straight, id defo be happy about playing on my account name if other ppl did it on theirs.

the first paragraph is just straight up incorrect, and while i wouldn't normally bm you for just not knowing something, you proceeded to imply that it was a hassle having to try to remember who everyone was (again, not an issue anyone had brought up, i had actually assumed your team had figured it out since we had figured out who you were rather easily and we were trading joke insults back and forth during the games) and that there was a significant tactical advantage to be gained from everyone changing their names (which you planned to "abuse" if it wasn't fixed).

my issue was in the fact that you did not once even bother to mention the fact that there was confusion in who our team members were (which i obviously was not aware of, iirc class even messaged me asking me who i was and i clarified) and that in that confusion you made the decision to not ask who we were (because we're trolls or something?) and instead complained to the person running the tournament that the rules should be changed so we couldn't do team-wide name changes anymore.

that's why i brought up the mlg and anti-fun point, because it's just a microcosm of how goddamn serious you guys are taking apl. the example of the bowserscastle d/c game when we played and there was just a wall of text whining about how we all had to spawn in the exact same moment and ppl yelling at each other to crash on the base was just ridiculous and a huge waste of time, especially since it happened twice as the server crashed after we finally got the game started back up again. just relax, if you're worried about the integrity of the game and tournament results being ruined by name changes then plz bring it up at the next 3l1t3sk1llz summit meeting

[Ingbo]

looks to me like ur the one taking this too srs bro, ez down now lol.

yes, i didnt think me asking who u were would get a srs reply, if it would or wouldnt is pure speculation, with u at least u never know what ur gona pull...




fool, everyone has been spawning at the same time after server crashes, not just klf, and having to deal with ur nickname changes is a HUGE waste of time, but sure bro go ahead post ur nickname changes here, and pm me while ur at it. its pretty anti-fun tho since it clearly gives u an edge.

[Ingbo]

and why do u KEEP bringing up the fact that it hasnt been lifted before? no it hasnt which has been adressed already, its never been a problem cause every other team in apl has had familiar players on it, this year and previous.

and even if there was no reason at all for it not being lifted so fkn what? its lifted now, and clearly in SL too (which i was unaware of)