SL10 Week 7

[darknietzsche]

Sunday 27th of JuLY 2014, Rounds 13 and 14: 2PM EDT/6PM GMT/6PM UTC/11AM PDT

http://challonge.com/SL10Season

Servers:
Vanishing's Ladder servers

Style: BO3 double round robin format. 1st play through of the round robing top team starts veto (ABBA format) and bottom team picks server (AAB format). Loser picks map after first game. During second play through, the roles will be switched.

Teams can substitute twice during a game. 6 players + 1 sub will start the game.

I won't be there, if any questions arise please contact: SSD, Aki, Van, or ball'n

Map Pool: For regular season only, teams once a server has picked will run command: /voteRandSLMaps <5>. The maps chosen by this command will be the map pool for the match between two teams. Playoffs which will likely be a double elimination style bracket with all 7 teams (this could change if teams start to not show up, etc.) will likely have fixed map pools.

Maps:

1. ball_asteroids
2. ball_cave
3. ball_core
4. ball_cross
5. ball_funnelpark
6. ball_hardcourt (original unless server only has updated ver.)
7. ball_grotto
8. ball_ice
9. ball_illumination
10. ball_labyrinth
11. ball_lostcity
12. ball_mayhem2
13. ball_maze
14. ball_planepark
15. ball_skylands
16. ball_snow
17. ball_warehouse

[Clapon]

ez is taking a walkover against Volare for both round 7 and 14

[JWhatever]

Vlix 2-1 BBQ
Vlix 2-0 ZroG

-J

[SPeciaL]

14? what? and AK win (no game we're only 4). 0-2 (4-6 planepark 4-6 maze) zrog win

[BrazNomar]

Confirming: ZroG 0 - 2 Vlix, ZroG 2 - 0 Volare

Hollywood and I agreed on rescheduling our game for next Sunday 1pm EST/5pm GMT, since ball didn't have enough. We had few other options available for date/time.

[Clapon]

round* sorry

[JWhatever]

Did Ball vs AK game happen?

-J

[Kafka]

Originally Posted by Hollywood

{ball} Rescheduling for next week saturday or whenever is fine.

Doesn't look like it, {ball} didn't have enough yesterday

[Fartface]

Maybe fit in AK vs ball at 1:30 EST? If y'all don't fool around in the lobby then 30 minutes should be enough time, and we can roll right into playoffs at 2

[darknietzsche]

Only problem is that results could effect seeding and I won't be around that late to change anything barring something crazy happens, so I have two options. 1) Post pone playoffs by a week, 2) hope someone can update the standings for me if ball does decide to make up its games sunday before playoffs start.

[Fartface]

I really don't think we should push playoffs back a whole week just for 2 quick matches (especially since Holly has already successfully rescheduled with zrog for 1 EST). Aside from causing boredom, making SL go late into August could cause turnout problems because a lot of people are moving back into uni etc.

Luckily I don't think seeding will be affected by the rescheduled matches. You could go ahead and make the probable bracket with the following seeds:

1 ball
2 vlix
3 bbq
4 ez
5 ak
6 zrog
7 volare

{ball} would only lose the 1st place seed if they lost to both zrog and ak which is statistically very unlikely. I'm not sure how close AK is to ez, but my guess is they need to beat ball to take the 4th place seed. Luckily it won't be much of a problem if that happens since AK and ez will be playing each other round 1 either way.

I'm happy to update standings / change bracket on Sunday after the 2 rescheduled matches if needed, but my guess is a bracket with these seeds will happen. Just don't make us wait 2 weeks! d:

[sunshineduck]

i don't really get how these match scores are translating to standings in challonge, how do you decide the "winner" of a set when both teams took a set 2-1 (AK vs ez for example) and why are there all these scores of 5 when the max amount of games you can win against a team is 4?

[JWhatever]

Currently, if each win is considered as 1 point:

Vlix 21 points
BBQ 20 points
Ball 19 points
Ez 12 points
AK 8 points
ZroG 7 points
Volare 0 points

What happens if ball ties with either us or BBQ? Will they get the higher seed due to more wins during regular season or one of us due to placing higher in preseason?

Both games can shift the seeding quite a lot.
I agree with Fart, don't prolong this any longer. You can fit 2 bo3s within 1 hour if you don't muck about.

-J

[darknietzsche]

Yeah it is hard, so a team gets when a team wins a bo3 a team gets 2 points for the 2 games they won and 1 point for the match. Obviously challonge can't handle two round robins, so I have to incorporate the second round matches into the previous round. Thus if a team wins against another 2-0 and 2-0 they should get 6 points. To do this, I arbitrarily give them 5 game points and 1 match point. The other combinations are the same. Thus if teams are tied then i need to manually go in and see tie breakers which would not be accurate based on the challonge results. Thus 1) head to head 2) total games won 3) pre-season results. My point with the results effecting the playoffs I would need someone other than me to understand this and be able to accurately place everyone into playoffs. I don't want to post-pone playoffs but if teams can't make up games in time I am afraid especially in the chance ball does lose which would cause the most problems that teams will be misplaced into their respective seeds.

[Fartface]

Okay but at the risk of sounding callous I don't think we need to postpone a week solely on the fear that ball will lose bo3s to both zrog and AK. Let's not allow political correctness to screw up an entire league

[darknietzsche]

I mean I rather people yell at me for skipping a week then having the team positions not correct.

[Fartface]

Ok but quite literally for seeds to be incorrect both AK and zrog would have to beat ball in bo3s which has never happened in the history of this game. And even if that did happen, it wouldn't be that complicated to fix it. For peace of mind, here are the possible scenarios:

AK and zrog both beat ball --> ball gets pushed down to 3rd
AK beats ball and zrog doesn't --> nothing happens (ball beats vlix in tiebreaker)
zrog beats ball and AK doesn't --> zrog gets 5th, AK gets 6th

All of which scenarios are incredibly unlikely, again sorry to be callous

Edit: ugh i'm sick of zrog being autocorrected to frog

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Fartface

Ok but quite literally for seeds to be incorrect both AK and zrog would have to beat ball in bo3s which has never happened in the history of this game. And even if that did happen, it wouldn't be that complicated to fix it. For peace of mind, here are the possible scenarios:

AK and zrog both beat ball --> ball gets pushed down to 3rd
AK beats ball and zrog doesn't --> nothing happens (ball beats vlix in tiebreaker)
zrog beats ball and AK doesn't --> zrog gets 5th, AK gets 6th

All of which scenarios are incredibly unlikely, again sorry to be callous

Edit: ugh i'm sick of zrog being autocorrected to frog

That can't be true anyway.

We beat vlix both times, and split with bbq, with them beating us 2-1 and us beating them 2-0.

As it stands without playing our last 2 games we are tied in points with BBQ for first, so based on us beating them 2-0 vs them 2-1 and us sweeping you, we would be first even if we forfeited the last 2 games, no?

J's points were incorrect, its 3 for a win, 1 for a 2-1 loss.

[Fartface]

Scores haven't been updated to reflect yesterday's games. I'm pretty sure what I said was correct. But anyway the gist of my point is that no one will have to yell at DN, he has my solemn guarantee. Plus if ball beats zrog at 1 EST then technically they don't even have to play against AK because that match will be irrelevant

Edit: You're half right; if you lose to both AK and zrog then you'll be in second, not third. You'd be tied with bbq with 28 pts and win that tiebreaker but vlix has 31.

Double edit: never mind bbq has 29 i'm confused. But anyway it really shouldn't be a problem. If ball loses to zrog at 1 EST then we'll have a whole 30 mins or so to figure it out.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Fartface

Scores haven't been updated to reflect yesterday's games. I'm pretty sure what I said was correct. But anyway the gist of my point is that no one will have to yell at DN, he has my solemn guarantee. Plus if ball beats zrog at 1 EST then technically they don't even have to play against AK because that match will be irrelevant

Gotcha, i didn't catch that. I don't think it was 100% correct as we are at worst #3 seed only if we lose to both without stealing a single game. If we beat even 1/2, we are #1 seed, and if we steal just 1 point we would be #2.

Either way, lets be realistic here, we have a 99.9% chance of finishing with the #1 seed because all we need to do is beat 1 out of zrog and ak, which history has dictated will (likely) happen.

[sunshineduck]

so correct me if i'm wrong but the current standings look like this right?

1. vlix: 31
(6 vs AK, 6 vs volare, 6 vs ez, 1 vs ball, 6 vs BBQ, 6 vs ZroG)
2. BBQ: 30
(6 vs volare, 4 vs ball, 6 vs ZroG, 6 vs AK, 6 vs ez, 2 vs vlix)
3. ball: 28 with 2 games left to play vs ZroG and AK
(6 vs ez, 4 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 6 vs vlix, 3 vs ZroG, 3 vs AK)
4. ez: 14 with 1 game left to play vs volare
(0 vs ball, 6 vs ZroG, 4 vs AK, 0 vs vlix, 1 vs BBQ, 3 vs volare)
5. AK: 13 with 1 game left to play vs ball
(3 vs ZroG, 0 vs vlix, 4 vs ez, 0 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 0 vs ball)
6. ZroG: 10 with 1 game left to play vs ball
(3 vs AK, 1 vs ez, 0 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 0 vs ball, 0 vs vlix)
7. volare: 0 with 1 game left to play vs ez
(0 vs everyone)

i don't know if clap was actually able to take the forfeit yesterday as i was not present, but it seems that volare was able to play other games so perhaps it was just a miscommunication and that match still needs to be played. here are the playoff seeding scenarios anyway:

A. if volare forfeits that match or ez wins (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) then we're guaranteed 4th at 17 points, since AK can only go up to a max of 16.

B. if AK wins 1 game vs ball then they are guaranteed 5th, and can be 4th if ez loses to volare and AK wins 2 games vs ball.

C. if AK loses vs ball 0-2 and ZroG wins vs ball (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter), ZroG and AK are tied for 5th with the regular season record being split. not sure what the tiebreakers are in that scenario, DN can you chime in?

D. if ball wins either set vs ZroG and AK (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) then they are guaranteed first place since they will get 3 points from either win and they hold the regular season series vs vlix.

E. if ball beats ZroG (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) and ez beats volare (or takes the forfeit) then the ball vs AK match won't affect the standings at all and is very skippable if both teams can agree to that.

BUT

F. if ball loses to ZroG 2-1 and loses to AK 2-1 then they tie with BBQ with the regular season series being split, so there would have to be a tiebreaker like in scenario C.

G. if ball loses to ZroG and AK and either one of those sets is 2-0 then they are third place, with AK and ZroG coming in 5th and 6th respectively.

so my proposed schedule for sunday is this: ball plays ZroG and ez plays volare at 1pm, if both those matches go as expected then we have plenty of time before the playoffs need to start at 2pm.

if ball loses to ZroG then they play AK immediately after. if they win then they're first and AK is 5th if they win 1 game and tied with ZroG if AK loses both. i recommend rock paper scissors or something to sort that out.

if ball somehow manages to lose both games 1-2 then they will tie with BBQ and need to do the same tiebreaker as AK/ZroG would have.

in even the worst of these cases it should theoretically be pretty easy to get all this done between 1pm and 2pm unless you want to do a bo1 as a tiebreaker.

[Fartface]

I nominate ssd for (probably unnecessary) DN substitute on Sunday

happy birthday ssd

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

so correct me if i'm wrong but the current standings look like this right?

1. vlix: 31
(6 vs AK, 6 vs volare, 6 vs ez, 1 vs ball, 6 vs BBQ, 6 vs ZroG)
2. BBQ: 30
(6 vs volare, 4 vs ball, 6 vs ZroG, 6 vs AK, 6 vs ez, 2 vs vlix)
3. ball: 28 with 2 games left to play vs ZroG and AK
(6 vs ez, 4 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 6 vs vlix, 3 vs ZroG, 3 vs AK)
4. ez: 14 with 1 game left to play vs volare
(0 vs ball, 6 vs ZroG, 4 vs AK, 0 vs vlix, 1 vs BBQ, 3 vs volare)
5. AK: 13 with 1 game left to play vs ball
(3 vs ZroG, 0 vs vlix, 4 vs ez, 0 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 0 vs ball)
6. ZroG: 10 with 1 game left to play vs ball
(3 vs AK, 1 vs ez, 0 vs BBQ, 6 vs volare, 0 vs ball, 0 vs vlix)
7. volare: 0 with 1 game left to play vs ez
(0 vs everyone)

i don't know if clap was actually able to take the forfeit yesterday as i was not present, but it seems that volare was able to play other games so perhaps it was just a miscommunication and that match still needs to be played. here are the playoff seeding scenarios anyway:

A. if volare forfeits that match or ez wins (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) then we're guaranteed 4th at 17 points, since AK can only go up to a max of 16.

B. if AK wins 1 game vs ball then they are guaranteed 5th, and can be 4th if ez loses to volare and AK wins 2 games vs ball.

C. if AK loses vs ball 0-2 and ZroG wins vs ball (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter), ZroG and AK are tied for 5th with the regular season record being split. not sure what the tiebreakers are in that scenario, DN can you chime in?

D. if ball wins either set vs ZroG and AK (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) then they are guaranteed first place since they will get 3 points from either win and they hold the regular season series vs vlix.

E. if ball beats ZroG (2-0 or 2-1 doesn't matter) and ez beats volare (or takes the forfeit) then the ball vs AK match won't affect the standings at all and is very skippable if both teams can agree to that.

BUT

F. if ball loses to ZroG 2-1 and loses to AK 2-1 then they tie with BBQ with the regular season series being split, so there would have to be a tiebreaker like in scenario C.

G. if ball loses to ZroG and AK and either one of those sets is 2-0 then they are third place, with AK and ZroG coming in 5th and 6th respectively.

so my proposed schedule for sunday is this: ball plays ZroG and ez plays volare at 1pm, if both those matches go as expected then we have plenty of time before the playoffs need to start at 2pm.

if ball loses to ZroG then they play AK immediately after. if they win then they're first and AK is 5th if they win 1 game and tied with ZroG if AK loses both. i recommend rock paper scissors or something to sort that out.

if ball somehow manages to lose both games 1-2 then they will tie with BBQ and need to do the same tiebreaker as AK/ZroG would have.

in even the worst of these cases it should theoretically be pretty easy to get all this done between 1pm and 2pm unless you want to do a bo1 as a tiebreaker.

Didn't look at rest but BBQ is 29, only 3 vs ball.

[sunshineduck]

oh i didn't see the second set was 2-0, doesn't change anything in terms of the amount of games that need to be played but you would have to lose both sets 0-2 to get guaranteed 3rd

[Carlos98]

What is the playoff format going to be?

[SPeciaL]

well we didn't have enough players until 30 mins past SL and ez only wanted to wait for about 20 mins so i think ez take the forfeit unless ez changed their mind

[sunshineduck]

ok i believe clapon said he wanted to take it then, makes it a lot easier for us scheduling-wise at least. thanks!

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by Carlos98

What is the playoff format going to be?

I believe double elim, will most likely look like this: http://challonge.com/tournaments/bra...ref=P78CXbZ8iA

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

oh i didn't see the second set was 2-0

did the same with AK vs ez (they only got 3 points total from those matches) so there was actually no chance of there being a tie for 4th.

i've updated the challonge now, the point totals should be accurate

[REDDRAGON]

[PUB LOG PARSER 2014]

[21:00] {AK} Phyx: we need to take the win
[21:00] {AK} Phyx: from ball
[21:00] {AK}TJERKI: i know
[21:00] {AK} Phyx: to keep 5th
[21:00] {AK}TJERKI: i will dont accept

[TALKING ABOUT PLAYOFFS]
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: if we loose against ez we play either vlix or bbq
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: and then loose
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: k
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: if we beat ez we play ball
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: loose against ball


be nice to the new teams
they're at least trying

[sunshineduck]

ok so that makes it really easy, if ball wins 2-1 or 2-0 they're 1st, if they lose 1-2 they tie with BBQ, and if they lose 0-2 they're 3rd. the game has no effect on the standings from 4-7.

[sunshineduck]

also in regards to format fart's bracket looks p much correct, i think it should be a 3 week playoffs.

day 1 rounds A, B, C, D, E, I, J, K all bo3
day 2 rounds F, L, M all bo5
then finals

unless we only want to do bo5 for winners/losers finals as opposed to semis as well, not sure if teams would rather play 1 bo3 and then a bo5 instead of 2 bo5s in the same day

[Phyx]

Originally Posted by REDDRAGON

[PUB LOG PARSER 2014]

[21:00] {AK} Phyx: we need to take the win
[21:00] {AK} Phyx: from ball
[21:00] {AK}TJERKI: i know
[21:00] {AK} Phyx: to keep 5th
[21:00] {AK}TJERKI: i will dont accept

[TALKING ABOUT PLAYOFFS]
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: if we loose against ez we play either vlix or bbq
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: and then loose
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: k
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: if we beat ez we play ball
[21:04] {AK} Phyx: loose against ball


be nice to the new teams
they're at least trying

So its a regular thing for you to look through chat logs.
What a life you have.

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

also in regards to format fart's bracket looks p much correct, i think it should be a 3 week playoffs.

day 1 rounds A, B, C, D, E, I, J, K all bo3
day 2 rounds F, L, M all bo5
then finals

unless we only want to do bo5 for winners/losers finals as opposed to semis as well, not sure if teams would rather play 1 bo3 and then a bo5 instead of 2 bo5s in the same day

Agreed, double elim has always taken 3 weeks in the past.

I think in the past round L has been bo3 but it could go either way (a match knocking out the 4th place team doesn't necessarily warrant a bo5 but I guess it's up to contestants?)

iirc in past tournaments it was more like:
day 1: A, B, C, D, E, I bo3
day 2: J, K, L bo3, F bo5
day 3: M bo5, finals bo7
That schedule makes it so that no team faces 3 teams in 1 day as will happen in your schedule to either the loser of B or the loser of C (whoever wins round I) <-- statistically ZroG would play 3 bo3s in week 1. However if people would prefer not to have loser's semis (M) on same day as finals then your schedule would be preferable.

[sunshineduck]

yeah thats what i was going for since the team from losers has to play two bo7 sets to win grand finals and i figure 3 bo3s is a lot easier to manage than 1 bo5 and 2 bo7s

[blln4lyf]

Not that I think it'll happen, but if we lost to Zrog we would not be taking a forfeit against ak. Teams reschedule all the time, just because it was the last week of season doesn't make it any different.

[sunshineduck]

you don't have a choice in the matter if AK had 6 on sunday and you didn't, it's a privilege to reschedule and not a rule. if you or holly couldn't get ahold of anyone from AK to reschedule they are perfectly welcome to take a forfeit if it would help their playoff chances. in this case specifically, if ZroG beats you they have even more incentive to take the forfeit since there's no reason for them to give up guaranteed 5th place

[Carlos98]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

you don't have a choice in the matter if AK had 6 on sunday and you didn't, it's a privilege to reschedule and not a rule. if you or holly couldn't get ahold of anyone from AK to reschedule they are perfectly welcome to take a forfeit if it would help their playoff chances. in this case specifically, if ZroG beats you they have even more incentive to take the forfeit since there's no reason for them to give up guaranteed 5th place

Let's hold the phone here. Holly was available to reschedule games on Sunday. AK played no games on Sunday. Do we know AK even showed up and had enough?

[StygMa]

Yup we showed up with 6+

[sunshineduck]

they played no games because their matches were vs volare and {ball}, neither of whom showed up. i would assume volare forfeited instead of rescheduling because AK had enough