tbd_poseidon

[NeneNene]

wow that is very impressive artwork, this looks like a fun map, i hope u win the contest

[Mt.Vesuvius]

This is awesome. I have played it. Maybe Make the space to get to the base bigger because if u place a wall then it practically impossible to bomb

[Wing Eraser]

A new update.
Check the screenshot: link

I'm not done yet. The collision layer is almost done. The roof needs some obstacles.

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Wing Eraser

A new update.
Check the screenshot: link

I'm not done yet. The collision layer is almost done. The roof needs some obstacles.

Definitely looking good - can't wait to try it out.

[innerlyte]

Did you think making a map would be this much work??
Glad you're sticking with it though. The community is always appreciative of a quality new map. One change I might implement is decreasing the angle of the base. I understand people want to protect it from lob bombs, but you don't want to make it too difficult to land on. Perhaps a 10 degree shift would be reasonable?

[Nikon]

I can't get over how fantastic the graphics look on this map, may I ask how you created these? Tablet drawing, Photoshop, Illustrator????

[Wing Eraser]

Originally Posted by innerlyte

Did you think making a map would be this much work??
Glad you're sticking with it though. The community is always appreciative of a quality new map. One change I might implement is decreasing the angle of the base. I understand people want to protect it from lob bombs, but you don't want to make it too difficult to land on. Perhaps a 10 degree shift would be reasonable?

Hehe, I don't think it's difficult. The first map the degree was even more than the current. I didn't receive any feedback on the landing, so I think it isn't a big problem. Thank you for your post.

[trendy11one]

Its only me, who thinks, that base need more bombing routes? Maybe u didnt saw this, just suggestion
bad pic again
Just say and i stop this

[Wing Eraser]

Originally Posted by Nikon

I can't get over how fantastic the graphics look on this map, may I ask how you created these? Tablet drawing, Photoshop, Illustrator????

Thank you for the kind words.
I made this with Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet. I'm using Photoshop CS5. Before I drawing in Photoshop I've looked on other software like:
- Artrage 3, bad performance and no folder support in layer.
- Illustrator CS5, little experience, but drawing a lot of shapes could be nasty to redo and it's more diffcult to clean edges.
- Manga Studio, it's good for drawing manga but not a map.
- Paint.NET, no support for tablet.

So I've sticked with Photoshop, because I've some experience and I've mostly memorize the shortcut keys for every tool.

[Wing Eraser]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

Its only me, who thinks, that base need more bombing routes? Maybe u didnt saw this, just suggestion
bad pic again
Just say and i stop this

I haven't answer your reply, because I need more feedback on you suggestion. Still, there a lot of routes to get to the base

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by Wing Eraser

Thank you for the kind words.
I made this with Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet. I'm using Photoshop CS5. Before I drawing in Photoshop I've looked on other software like:
- Artrage 3, bad performance and no folder support in layer.
- Illustrator CS5, little experience, but drawing a lot of shapes could be nasty to redo and it's more diffcult to clean edges.
- Manga Studio, it's good for drawing manga but not a map.
- Paint.NET, no support for tablet.

So I've sticked with Photoshop, because I've some experience and I've mostly memorize the shortcut keys for every tool.

Mhh, I really want to get a Wacom. I don't have the money right now. I would get PS CS5 but I don't have a intel computer, so I am sticking with CS4 which is still fantastic.

Drawing with the tablet, is it easy to make it clean? Did you just use the brush tool and Drew?

[XX1]

Originally Posted by Wing Eraser

I haven't answer your reply, because I need more feedback on you suggestion. Still, there a lot of routes to get to the base

To be honest Wing, there are not very many routes to the base, just middle and low route for a partial.... This is why i gave you the suggestion to open up the top of the parthenon so a top route would be possible, you open the top up but a top route isn't possible still. Just the middle route - bomb carrier coming from mid, top and bottom.

[Wing Eraser]

Originally Posted by Nikon

Mhh, I really want to get a Wacom. I don't have the money right now. I would get PS CS5 but I don't have a intel computer, so I am sticking with CS4 which is still fantastic.

Drawing with the tablet, is it easy to make it clean? Did you just use the brush tool and Drew?

I used for the most part brush and eraser. And sometimes a little help from the blend mode and filter effect (like the blur for the background).

[Wing Eraser]

Update, see first post.

[Nikon]

"(But I do have the feeling the game is dying for the last 3 months)"

Are you kidding me? What makes you think that?

[Wok3N^]

The map looks absolutely beautiful and the graphics are so well done. Let me just tell you how it will fit in with the tbd gameplay though.

Because the map is so vertically expanded and there are 3 major "areas" that split up the map vertically, the teams themselves would have to split up amongst the map producing more dogfighting rather than teamfighting.

If teams decided to stick together, the team with the bomb pushing would really just have to fly down the side where the other team was not.

This map would be good in official servers because of the 7v7 but I don't think the 5v5 more competitive matches would work as well here. The only thing I can think of that would make this be able to play 5v5 is make the bomb timers have longer re-spawn times. But anyways, great job and I can't wait to see more maps out of you.

[roeloftp]

i also make maps in photoshop and i must say that i am inpressed how you made that map. i made tbd_nature for example, http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4650 you have any tips to let it look as cool as your map?

[mikesol]

Latest suggestions:

* Consider making it a team bomb map. Further play reveals the neutral bomb in the bottom middle is not ideal.

* The base is angled too steeply. Not only is it difficult to lob (considering there is a branch blocking it) - but it's hard to take off and land. Consider making flat or significantly reducing the angle.

* The top part is still hard to tell what is solid and what is not simply looking at the graphics. The ceiling background could perhaps use a change.

[pig_bomb]

Hey wing erasor,

I feel bad for giving you feedback so long after you've stopped updating but better late than never i guess. To start off it seems you're worried this game might be "dying" but trust me when i tell you this is not like other indie multiplayer games that have one sale on steam, get some players then slowly die. Altitude is pretty much immortal, it's been going for many years now and the hardcore player base won't ever stop playing as long as the game is up.

On to the map, I think alot of the important things have been said but you may not have realized the impact of each or how to solve them.

The largest problem is the size of the map. While the map might barely be playable in 7v7 it would never work at 5v5. I think the reason your map has grown so large is the you've tried to incorporate too many "ideas" and alot of your objects are too large. It's for this reason you would need to make rather drastic changes in order to make the map really successful. Things would need to be scaled down overall. The height is the bigger difficulty. Its too difficult to climb that high in altitude, the whole top area is unnecessary.
- When making maps in altitude simplicity is always key. One good idea is usually enough and it's good too keep objects simple in shape and size.
- You want to keep large objects to a minimum because they restrict the overall playable area and they force certain actions for a player. In the most fun altitude maps the players have a playground to perform the actions they want, without being overly restricted to flying certain paths or attacking/spamming in a particular way.

The next problem I would address, is the neutral bomb spawn. It's in my experience and opinion that neutral bomb spawns are never as good as team bomb spawns. The official neutral bomb maps are pretty good for the most part but the best, most played maps are all team bomb maps. The fact that this is a neutral bomb map has forced you to do certain things with the layout that i don't think work very well.
- If this were a team bomb map the bottom path would not be possible, helping the simplicity of the map.

The last thing i think should always be a consideration for map makers is creating balance throughout the whole level. I think you've let you're ideas for the graphics of the map control the layout to such an extent that it creates the cluttered feeling that people seem to be describing while still leaving a couple areas that are too open. You should strive to have a greater balance in pathways and open areas.

Here's a mock-up for a balanced 5v5 layout that i think would be pretty sick.
- The map size is decreased to a better size.
- Everythings been scaled down, especially the main platform of the temple was way too big.
- Team bomb, bottom path removed.
- Base lowered to account for the less height. Made it a better angle.
- More powerups added, two is not enough imo.
- Much simpler and more balanced.

[elxir]

actually looks like a pretty sick map

[Wing Eraser]

Originally Posted by pig_bomb

Hey wing erasor,

I feel bad for giving you feedback so long after you've stopped updating but better late than never i guess.

No problem hehe . Feedback is always welcome. It's been a long time since I logged in. Didn't know someone post a reply.

To start off it seems you're worried this game might be "dying" but trust me when i tell you this is not like other indie multiplayer games that have one sale on steam, get some players then slowly die. Altitude is pretty much immortal, it's been going for many years now and the hardcore player base won't ever stop playing as long as the game is up.

OK!

On to the map, I think alot of the important things have been said but you may not have realized the impact of each or how to solve them.

Yep, still struggeling on the solutions.

The largest problem is the size of the map. While the map might barely be playable in 7v7 it would never work at 5v5. I think the reason your map has grown so large is the you've tried to incorporate too many "ideas" and alot of your objects are too large. It's for this reason you would need to make rather drastic changes in order to make the map really successful. Things would need to be scaled down overall. The height is the bigger difficulty. Its too difficult to climb that high in altitude, the whole top area is unnecessary.
- When making maps in altitude simplicity is always key. One good idea is usually enough and it's good too keep objects simple in shape and size.

Correct, I tried to make a nice looking graphic which only ended in to big objects. The map only growed by that.

- You want to keep large objects to a minimum because they restrict the overall playable area and they force certain actions for a player. In the most fun altitude maps the players have a playground to perform the actions they want, without being overly restricted to flying certain paths or attacking/spamming in a particular way.

Like those rocks under water.

The next problem I would address, is the neutral bomb spawn. It's in my experience and opinion that neutral bomb spawns are never as good as team bomb spawns. The official neutral bomb maps are pretty good for the most part but the best, most played maps are all team bomb maps. The fact that this is a neutral bomb map has forced you to do certain things with the layout that i don't think work very well.
- If this were a team bomb map the bottom path would not be possible, helping the simplicity of the map.

Nice tip. Neutral bomb will be removed in the next update.

The last thing i think should always be a consideration for map makers is creating balance throughout the whole level. I think you've let you're ideas for the graphics of the map control the layout to such an extent that it creates the cluttered feeling that people seem to be describing while still leaving a couple areas that are too open. You should strive to have a greater balance in pathways and open areas.

Correct. I didn't wanted to make floating objects in Poseidon that doesn't make any sense.

Here's a mock-up for a balanced 5v5 layout that i think would be pretty sick.
- The map size is decreased to a better size.
- Everythings been scaled down, especially the main platform of the temple was way too big.
- Team bomb, bottom path removed.
- Base lowered to account for the less height. Made it a better angle.
- More powerups added, two is not enough imo.
- Much simpler and more balanced.

Thank you very much! I'll try to apply your idea. I'm happy you made something for me. I'm not ready yet to go on with the map. Maybe somewhere in Feb.