Pein All Chat

[.sf|hubris]

Too much all chat after spec chat is called
Dont care if he gets banned but he should be reprimanded

[Ribilla]

Isn't spec chat negated if any two of the following conditions apply?

1) It was a suffixed with 'faggot'
2) Soloqm or Tek called it
3) 'faggot' was misspelt

[leggomyeggo]

when did people start becoming such dicks and banning people for not spec chatting? either mute them or ignore them, good lord.

[Radium]

ask nicely next time

[elxir]

for the record i am the best randa in football and i was not online during this incident - nor am i a member of xxXXXXxXXxXxXx|

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

2) Soloqm or Tek called it

Can you count the number of times I've called spec chat? Oh right, that's just a number you just made up in your head.

I don't even remember the last time I called spec chat, I don't see why you keep having this stupid idea that I always call spec chat all the time. I have a lot of people muted, I find it much easier to mute people than asking them to spec chat. I hardly call spec chat nowadays because most of the people that abuse this rule regularly I've already muted and this includes Pein.

Can you find one single report where I've complained or asked someone to be banned for not spec chatting? Find just one. I'm pretty sure it has never bothered me to that extent. Spec chat should guard against spamming or voluminous chat that obscures regular team chat, otherwise I don't really care much if people have the occasional all chat. If you have half a dozen people spamming "USA" (or "EU" or whatever) over and over then yes I'd have called for spec chat.. but who wouldn't who was trying to focus on the game.

[sunshineduck]

y u mad tho

[Tekn0]

Monday tomorrow :S

[Disilord]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

when did people start becoming such dicks and banning people for not spec chatting? either mute them or ignore them, good lord.

lol just got banned

[Slender]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

when did people start becoming such dicks and banning people for not spec chatting? either mute them or ignore them, good lord.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Disilord

lol just got banned

i ****ing love our administration system. and our community. ****ing love them.

[[Y]]

doesn't it seem like the spec chat was called out of spite and not to keep the chat area clear during the game

i mean kessek keeps talking in all chat through these screenshots when he should be playing ladder or something

also, wtf hubris was a spectator?

[.sf|hubris]

To my knowledge, ladder rules don't make a distinction on the manners in which spec chat must be called for it do be respected - be it the language used or the attitude assumed.

I also wasnt calling for Pein to be banned (what I said was "Dont care if he gets banned but he should be reprimanded"). And he should be.

Also - yes I was a spectator myself, but when someone not only ignores the person who has called spec chat more than once but also continues to be abbusive toward them, I'm going to take a screenshot of that. You may say that makes me a whiney jerk in the community but Im honestly just trying to help. The rule he broke was put in place for a reason and I dont see anything in this circumstance that would remove it from that reason.

[ex~]

lol mute buttons, extinct since 2010

[Princess Squirtle]

Saying "fagget" to Pein is like saying "hi", for him. It's his language. It's like being polite with him.


As for the mute button: people talking during a game really is distracting. It catches your eye; especially if there are more than one lines, it adds a movement. Additionally, this is a very situational case of jerkism. One can be a jerk in that way but a really interesting person nonetheless in another way.

So, yes, you have the mute solution, but if I were to mute people, I'd have to unmute them after the game, because I don't like missing parts of a possibly interesting conversations afterwards. People aren't jerks all the time (except Sunaku, but she's not human). If I start doing that, considering the amount of trolls/obscene people/immature people/elixir, you'd have to mute half of the community. At the utmost, you'd have to mute every peeps just talking in all-chat. That's a lot of work to mute and unmute them (more or less) every game. Muting doesn't work in that case.
Moreoever, what if you have that person friended and don't want to lose what it allows to do and have? Remember, this is a situational case of jerkism. Muting doesn't work in that case.
What if, you're an admin, that should have to see what everyone is saying when you're around, in case that they are going mad? Muting doesn't work in that case.
What if they are more than one person talking at the same time? You might not have enough time to mute them in-between two actions, that could result in something bad for your team. Muting doesn't work in that case. Then, you could say that there is the capture mode. In the one hand, it allows you to mute everyone, but on the other hand, you can't see your team either, which can be a handicap. Capture mode doesn't work then.
etc.

It's also an easy shortcut and a sophism to think that the solution to people being jerks is to mute those people. No, the real solution is for them to stop being jerks. Why? because even if it's the internet -the land of trolls thinking this is an absolute free area-, the one misdoing shouldn't be the one making others change their attitude. Why? because, the internet isn't the good ol' far-west, it's a social tool, hence answer to social rules. It's as simple as that, and this has nothing to do with seeing it as a fairy tale.

Anyway, the point is, ladder is a competitive server where games are (should be...) played competitively. For that, you need a competitive atmosphere. While it doesn't exclude having fun by talking with each other, rules have to lean toward the players (those who are currently in the game) because they are playing those games, not toward the spectators (those who are outside said game). What it means is that the rules are made to make it more enjoyable for the players than for the spectators. As I said above, there are many reasons where the mute button doesn't work. This is why this rule exists.

As for actually banning people... Well, that's the second case where I ban someone for this reason. Both times were because those people were, more than once when I was around, not shushing when asked for, and instead keep trying to push the button a bit further. At some point, it has to stop. Also, because ssd hates him.

[andy]

I really think spec chat should be enforced more but at the same time calling spec chat then talking to the person not spec chatting is stupid and i would excpect the person spectating to answer.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by andy

I really think spec chat should be enforced more but at the same time calling spec chat then talking to the person not spec chatting is stupid and i would excpect the person spectating to answer.

Agreed. Insulting someone to spec chat should NOT be considered a valid call for spec chat. It is, if anything, a provocation to get the spectator. If so, does "STFU spec chat" fall under provocative?

[ex~]

All i'm saying is that 99% percent of ladder players aren't an admin. So they won't have to have everyone unmuted. Muting someone can be handy when there are no admins present, and that is a fair amount of times. Plus, when certain people call spec chat, that is like adding gasoline to the fire and rather just tends to make things worse.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

Agreed. Insulting someone to spec chat should NOT be considered a valid call for spec chat. It is, if anything, a provocation to get the spectator. If so, does "STFU spec chat" fall under provocative?

What i meant was they actually started talking to each other after the spec chat was called so i dont really see the problem.

[elxir]

yo squirtle i saw that ._.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by elxir

yo squirtle i saw that ._.

Did you know that your name is spelt incorrectly?

[Radium]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Did you know that your name is spelt incorrectly?

did you ?

[Evan20000]

I didn't think this picture would see use again so soon!

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Princess Squirtle

So, yes, you have the mute solution, but if I were to mute people, I'd have to unmute them after the game, because I don't like missing parts of a possibly interesting conversations afterwards. People aren't jerks all the time (except Sunaku, but she's not human).

well that's just like....your opinion, man. if you don't want to miss this riveting conversation that you speak of, then you're holding yourself accountable for the extra two clicks it takes to unmute someone. everybody else, i believe, is fine with leaving a person muted. also, as a side note: people are jerks all the time, they're just lesser jerks.

If I start doing that, considering the amount of trolls/obscene people/immature people/elixir, you'd have to mute half of the community.

you don't necessarily have to mute half the community. per game, how many people do you see that truthfully bother you by the amount of all chat they use? maybe 2? and it's usually going to be the same people every time, so you could simply fill up your 60 or so slot mutelist with all chatters. i've already filled up my mute list, why can't you?

At the utmost, you'd have to mute every peeps just talking in all-chat.

same thing

That's a lot of work to mute and unmute them (more or less) every game. Muting doesn't work in that case.

why do you have to unmute them every game? if they're all chatters and you have a serious problem with them, mute them once and forget about them.

Moreoever, what if you have that person friended and don't want to lose what it allows to do and have? Remember, this is a situational case of jerkism. Muting doesn't work in that case.

if they're really your friend, tell them to shut up and they'll probably listen.

What if, you're an admin, that should have to see what everyone is saying when you're around, in case that they are going mad? Muting doesn't work in that case.

invalid seeing as there's only less than 10ish active admins and they are able to enforce the spec chat rule with power behind it. it's the difference between having one of your peers telling you to do something and having a police officer or other authority figure telling you to do something.

What if they are more than one person talking at the same time? You might not have enough time to mute them in-between two actions, that could result in something bad for your team. Muting doesn't work in that case.

muting someone takes all of 3 seconds, so just mute them when you die. it's really not that tough.

Then, you could say that there is the capture mode. In the one hand, it allows you to mute everyone, but on the other hand, you can't see your team either, which can be a handicap. Capture mode doesn't work then.
etc.

true, but why use capture mode when you have a perfectly viable mute button?

bluecharizardsss

[[Y]]

scumbag admin, writes a wall every time

main points against the mute button:
-too much work
it's literally right click, left click- takes a second at most and i don't see how that's "work"
-friends list
what are they doing on your friends list if they're annoyingly spamming all chat?
-"What if, you're an admin, that should have to see what everyone is saying when you're around, in case that they are going mad?"
in case who's going mad?
-not enough time to mute multiple people
see #1

[Princess Squirtle]

That is an hyperbole.

That is the key word.

That is the rule of dedication.

Those are quotes dismissed outside of their context.

Now, let's play a game: find the sentence that actually explains logically the whys and wherefores.

NB: "I" implies an opinion, cap'tain.

This is haughtiness.

[nobodyhome]

you can come up with all these workarounds to not using the spec chat call, sure. but you still haven't addressed the issue of: why can't when someone call spec chat, you just stop talking on all chat? do you have so little self control that you MUST continue blabbering into all chat when people are trying to play a game?

the question is not why this rule exists (when you have other slower options to shut people up i.e. muting), but why the hell not? what benefit do you get from being able to continue talking on all? do you just like the sound of your own voice blasted out to all of the current game's participants whether they want to hear you or not?

[[Y]]

are you replying to yourself?

@nobo the same type of argument could be made in the reverse, i.e.:
why not not have it? what benefit do you get from calling spec chat instead of muting (if anything muting is more beneficial as it guarantees silence)? do you just like the superficial authority you wield over everyone whether they want to obey your command or not?

p.s. it's not "all these workarounds" and it's not slower

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

you can come up with all these workarounds to not using the spec chat call, sure. but you still haven't addressed the issue of: why can't when someone call spec chat, you just stop talking on all chat? do you have so little self control that you MUST continue blabbering into all chat when people are trying to play a game?

the question is not why this rule exists (when you have other slower options to shut people up i.e. muting), but why the hell not? what benefit do you get from being able to continue talking on all? do you just like the sound of your own voice blasted out to all of the current game's participants whether they want to hear you or not?

well yes, but that's not the point. my point is that people abuse it. i.e getting banned for saying 1 word after spec chat was called. people aren't using it because they find the spec chat offensive anymore, they're using it simply to get someone they don't like banned. and if i understand correctly, the spec chat rule was added in because you wanted to stop people from mass spamming or interrupting gameplay. so why don't we ban people for doing that, why are we banning people for silly offenses?

i was only arguing for other ways around the spec chat rule (such as muting) because i loathe entirely the spec chat rule.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by [Y]

are you replying to yourself?

@nobo the same type of argument could be made in the reverse, i.e.:
why not not have it? what benefit do you get from calling spec chat instead of muting (if anything muting is more beneficial as it guarantees silence)? do you just like the superficial authority you wield over everyone whether they want to obey your command or not?

p.s. it's not "all these workarounds" and it's not slower

the benefit is that i get to type "spec chat" and have everyone instantly shut up as opposed to individually muting the people who are talking on all chat (which may be up to 8 people) and then having to unmute them or refriend them afterwards. for example, if leggo was spewing out random crap in all chat i'd want to call spec chat so that i don't have to see it. whereas if i had to use mute then i'd have to mute him (along with whoever else i don't want to hear) and then unmute them afterwards (because it's not like i don't ever want to hear leggo talk, it's just that at the moment, leggo talking in all chat is very inconvenient when i am trying to play).

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

well yes, but that's not the point. my point is that people abuse it. i.e getting banned for saying 1 word after spec chat was called. people aren't using it because they find the spec chat offensive anymore, they're using it simply to get someone they don't like banned. and if i understand correctly, the spec chat rule was added in because you wanted to stop people from mass spamming or interrupting gameplay. so why don't we ban people for doing that, why are we banning people for silly offenses?

i was only arguing for other ways around the spec chat rule (such as muting) because i loathe entirely the spec chat rule.

no, the spec chat rule is added because i don't want people to talk in all chat and bothering the players. the "you only have to spec chat IF someone calls for it" clause is because GENERALLY people don't mind spec chat, but in case anyone at all remotely does, i want to give them the option to shut everyone up.

it makes no sense that people are using this to "get someone they don't like banned", because if you merely stop talking on all chat when someone calls for it, then you won't get banned. therefore if you get banned it's entirely your fault. i have never (and neither has any other admin) banned someone for talking 1-2 extra lines after spec chat was called, UNLESS it was obvious that the person DID hear the spec chat call (as in your case) as opposed to just mistakenly typed too quickly.

[Radium]

worst inventions ever:
leggomyeggo
marmalade
spec chat rule

[matattack]

So I know I don't play much anymore but is there a way to code admins to silence people for a duration of time instead? or is that like super complex business? o.o
I can see the admin abuse now.. But hey then at least its on the admins rather than "player to player" for setting up a rule. Right?
At least to me, that's the main problem. Most players have too much ego in alti to give a poop about if another player cares or not about how they act. Which is why it then always gets placed into forums and always is up to admins to check it out. Wouldn't it be awesome if admins could just hit like the...Mute *player* button where Duration : 1min 5min, 10 billion years.? xD And that would not allow people to see his/her chat?

Just an idea. I guess what im sayin is spec chat isn't really a "rule" to begin with if anyone can call it. At least in my mind...

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by matattack

So I know I don't play much anymore but is there a way to code admins to silence people for a duration of time instead? or is that like super complex business? o.o
I can see the admin abuse now.. But hey then at least its on the admins rather than "player to player" for setting up a rule. Right?
At least to me, that's the main problem. Most players have too much ego in alti to give a poop about if another player cares or not about how they act. Which is why it then always gets placed into forums and always is up to admins to check it out. Wouldn't it be awesome if admins could just hit like the...Mute *player* button where Duration : 1min 5min, 10 billion years.? xD And that would not allow people to see his/her chat?

Just an idea. I guess what im sayin is spec chat isn't really a "rule" to begin with if anyone can call it. At least in my mind...

Yes but this requires an active admin to be around. Good idea and could be added as an additional admin power, but there are a lot of times when admins are not around. Also it needs to be like the ban rule i.e. it remains in effect until end of game regardless of if the player disconnects and reconnect. In any case, another feature request for lamster..

[mikesol]

I think an easier solution would be to add like /captureMode 6 where it mutes all spectator chat but leaves all other chat. Seems like that would be an easy enough thing to code. For those players that are annoyed by the chat - have them turn on the captureMode at the beginning of the game and turn it off at the end.

For even easier we could modify the /dnd command to do this functionality as that's quite easy to type. After all - if you can type spec chat - you can type /dnd even quicker.

Reasonable or no?

[nobodyhome]

I already asked lamster to implement this. Until it gets in though, please shut the all chat when asked.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

no, the spec chat rule is added because i don't want people to talk in all chat and bothering the players. the "you only have to spec chat IF someone calls for it" clause is because GENERALLY people don't mind spec chat, but in case anyone at all remotely does, i want to give them the option to shut everyone up.

it makes no sense that people are using this to "get someone they don't like banned", because if you merely stop talking on all chat when someone calls for it, then you won't get banned. therefore if you get banned it's entirely your fault. i have never (and neither has any other admin) banned someone for talking 1-2 extra lines after spec chat was called, UNLESS it was obvious that the person DID hear the spec chat call (as in your case) as opposed to just mistakenly typed too quickly.

i just don't see how these 1-2 extra lines are too much of a bother. contrary to popular belief, i usually try to abide by the spec chat rule. i simply voice my opinion on how i feel about the spec chat rule as it is called, then i shut up. if i had gone on talking the rest of the game, or even for an extra minute or so after spec chat was called, then it would have been a completely reasonable ban. except the thing is... i didn't. that's what i'm talking about by abuse of the rule. i know it's still technically breaking the rules if i say even one word after spec chat, but it doesn't hurt anyone.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

i just don't see how these 1-2 extra lines are too much of a bother. contrary to popular belief, i usually try to abide by the spec chat rule. i simply voice my opinion on how i feel about the spec chat rule as it is called, then i shut up. if i had gone on talking the rest of the game, or even for an extra minute or so after spec chat was called, then it would have been a completely reasonable ban. except the thing is... i didn't. that's what i'm talking about by abuse of the rule. i know it's still technically breaking the rules if i say even one word after spec chat, but it doesn't hurt anyone.

The problem there is now you've got a grey area. Exactly how long after spec chat has been called does spec chat come into effect? It just opens up more interpretation which will lead to further qq by every party.

[AzzedariuSuiradezza]

And they say I take no pride in my work.

[elxir]

i agree with nobo because he's right tbqh