Objectives in Co-op

[Oyster]

So, I was thinking of ways to spice up co-op. The biggest problem for me is that there is only one objective - destroy the base or plant the bomb.

My solution is to require specific, one-time-use items to create alternate objectives to get past a certain obstacle 'doors':

Wall obstacle door:


Shield obstacle door:


Missile obstacle door:
(I could not think of an obstacle requiring a missile to get through. Anything a missile can hit to destroy a turret blocking the path, an explodet or biplane can also hit with their regular ammunition)

Base obstacle door:
(If you build a co-op map in ball mode, you can also use bases and bombs to achieve the same effect. In example, you could require co-opers to reach 3 one-time-use bombs in separate places to blast the base to progress.

You can put a really long respawn time on the required item to prevent repeat uses, turning the powerups into one-time-use 'keys' to get past the appropriate obstacle. These 'doorways' that require specific items to get past will give co-opers another objective to reach before they can advance.

Thoughts? I'm not that familiar with co-op so maybe some maps already do this, but I at least wanted to start a discussion on how to advance this mode. I think co-op has a lot of potential to be expanded from its current form.

[Kafka]

I like where your head's at, but this is already somewhat implemented in some co-op maps. Needing walls to block turrets behind you or shields to get past turrets in front is fairly common. Like in bettertogether for example; for the randa part both shields and walls are needed at various points, and shields are needed toward the end to get past the chute of turrets.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or if you had something else in mind though. No harm in experimenting with it a bit, we could always use more co-op maps

Edit: That being said, there are instances where missiles can be used in this fashion. Again, in bettertogether, missiles are needed to destroy turrets that are too far out of reach in areas where whales are too big to access.

[Oyster]

Originally Posted by Kafka

I like where your head's at, but this is already somewhat implemented in some co-op maps. Needing walls to block turrets behind you or shields to get past turrets in front is fairly common. Like in bettertogether for example; for the randa part both shields and walls are needed at various points, and shields are needed toward the end to get past the chute of turrets.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or if you had something else in mind though. No harm in experimenting with it a bit, we could always use more co-op maps

Ah, I had a hunch that people were already doing something similar to this.
I suppose what makes my idea slightly different is that I had envisioned a map with a central box that contained different branches. Each branch would have a guarded item that would be necessary to advance, or unlock a new branch.

Also, I was thinking about incorporating bots into co-op somehow. If you build the map in ball mode, bots could be used for the neutral team.

[Kafka]

If you were able to contain bots (of the opposite team) in different areas, and better yet have them become increasingly difficult or numerous as you progress through the map, that would be quite fun. Fighting off hoards of bots & turrets while trying to reach your objective sounds awesome, I'm already envisioning a zombie-themed 1de_co-op map.

I know different spawn points within a co-op map is possible, but probably not varying degrees of difficulty in bots. At least you could have some sections with more bots and turrets toward the end.

I know literally nothing about map making, but I think that'd be a cool idea if you wanna mess around with it. Your idea of progressing through a central hub with branches with separate features/items/goals sounds fun too.

[Oyster]

I don't think there is a way to force multiple bots to spawn regardless of how many players are in the game.

If I'm correct, the best we can do right now is just have the number of bots match the number of players. Still, though, it could be fun to have a 'bot branch' or something.

[Mango777]

Like what Kafka said, some of these ideas are already implemented in co-op. The bot idea is really interesting, but it could be really, really, really hard to implement. If you manage to do it, I will be quite surprised, getting bot ai to navigate co-op maps is nearly impossible. Maybe a "ventilation" type system where you have multiple bot "air ducts" guarded by turrets.

[Kafka]

Also, it would have to be tbd_co-op for the bot idea to work. In 1de, once the bots are dead, the round is over. With tbd, even after killing the bots, you still have a base to destroy. Just an additional thought I had.

Then again, in tbd, the bots would continue to respawn. This could either prove to be annoying or constructive to map-making.

[Brutal]

These are some good ideas, although some are already used. I will try to make a new map soon & use more of these. I've had trouble trying to figure out what to add because not many people like to give 'good ideas'. The bot idea could possibly work with some configuring. Although, I do not know how they would be configured. Thanks for bringing some of these ideas up!

[Mango777]

YAY!
♩ ♬ ♪ ♫ Brutal's making a new map! ♫ ♪ ♬ ♩

[Stig]

Nice to see people are still playing co-op! Been a while since I have been active, but something like this might bring my interest back

[PACMAN]

Originally Posted by Stig

Nice to see people are still playing co-op! Been a while since I have been active, but something like this might bring my interest back

An old veteran returns


I really want coop to come back again, so +1 for new maps ect ect and if i find the time i will look forward to making some new, interesting maps ^_^

[Oyster]

Originally Posted by Kafka

If you were able to contain bots (of the opposite team) in different areas, and better yet have them become increasingly difficult or numerous as you progress through the map, that would be quite fun. Fighting off hoards of bots & turrets while trying to reach your objective sounds awesome, I'm already envisioning a zombie-themed 1de_co-op map.

I know different spawn points within a co-op map is possible, but probably not varying degrees of difficulty in bots. At least you could have some sections with more bots and turrets toward the end.

I know literally nothing about map making, but I think that'd be a cool idea if you wanna mess around with it. Your idea of progressing through a central hub with branches with separate features/items/goals sounds fun too.

So, I hadnt thought about this for a while, but then the other night it struck me how to contain the bots.

you could put 1 bot in 1 room and have lots of rooms or put all the bots in one room and unleash them all at once

[Mango777]

The bots won't go out. Even though a turret is destroyed, they treat it as a collideable object. You will have to push them through somehow.

[biell]

SirriuS has a similar idea to this implemented in tbd_coop_hive, the bots are behind a turret which you have to kill to advance. They never cross where the turret was, but you have to travel through that compartment to advance.

It is a horrible PITA by yourself, b/c it is hard to control the bot and work the remaining turrets. BUT, when there are more players and they are working together the way coop is supposed to work, it is brilliant! I wish /overrideSpawnPoint worked for bots, it would open up all kinds of possibilities.

Also, if you are willing to develop a map which only fully functions on my alti+server code, remember there are doors (which can have multiple keys/objectives required to open), one-ways (you can only go through in one direction), portals (you can ensure objects necessary from one area cannot be brought to another), and diverters (force players to alternate between two routes)

[Mango777]

Originally Posted by biell

and diverters (force players to alternate between two routes)

Ohh, so thats what the diverters do.

[Oyster]

I didnt realize the bots couldnt get out if you completely block the path, so I came up with this in editor. It works pretty good! The red turret shoots fast enough to almost instantly kill the bots, and the blue turret has a ton of damage and expanded blast radius to make sure it kills the red turret in one hit as you fly by. The bots can still get out after the red turret is destroyed. Obviously this wont work for 1dm_coop since it forces the bot to die, but i can see it having uses in ball_coop or tbd_coop

[Mango777]

I thought of this idea before too, in my tbd_construct. Since the bots couldn't fly under the mountain, I had to modify the turrets somewhat like what you did.