@van why don't you let people vote on new ladder maps?

[Fartface]

and I intentionally put this in the wrong subforum because van always deletes my posts in ladder discussion when I criticize him

[Creative2Caz]

+1. It'd be nice to have a say about some of the maps.

Originally Posted by Fartface

.. van always deletes my posts in ladder discussion when I criticize him

LOL.

[VAN1SH1NG]

I've not deleted posts due to criticism. I've cleaned up a thread or two that were were more calling people names and such than anything constructive.

Maps can be voted on. Heck, anyone can start a vote on the forums about a particular map if they think it should be removed. Please don't waste our time doing this though if it is a map you know the community does not almost universally hate. There are only a few maps in the map pool, excluding the new ones, that might qualify for that. The main problem with forum polls is that only a very small subset of the ladder community votes in polls. So unless the results are extremely conclusive, I'd probably need to add a way to poll in-game.

However, I'm guessing you are more referring to new maps added. Pubs are not active enough to test maps in a reasonable amount of time. Even if they were, they are only useful for a very quick test to make sure a new map is not absolutely horrible. Gameplay in ladder is very different. I've explained this multiple times by now.

I can tell that well enough now, at least for Ball, by examining them in the map editor to make sure dimensions/layout is acceptable and there are no technical issues. This was not the case 1+ years ago when I did put bad maps in for testing. New maps usually still need adjustments after being tested and some might not stay around if they are too far away. I'm always going to try to resolve any gameplay issues rather than remove maps though.

As I said when I added the maps, I believe all the maps that were recently added are suitable for ladder except possibly eidum. I feel eidum is close enough to give a shot in ladder even if it is likely to not make the cut. The rest may need to be updated but seem fine. I realize some might not agree with certain aspects of some of the maps, but I think the majority of the community will like them fine. I have not seen them played enough to come to any conclusions yet, nor have I really received feedback on any of them.

Out of the other maps, I think darkwar really is the only ball map that should possibly be considered for removal. If you want to start a vote for other somewhat unpopular maps that is fine, but I don't think it will happen. However I really do not like removing maps from the map pool if they are used in league. I think it is good to get practice on them in ladder even if they aren't generally liked by the ladder community.

The big problem with the ladder community is they don't take the time to give map feedback. Like I'd much rather see someone try to start up a discussion on specific maps they believe need work than people just through up polls asking if a map should be removed.

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by VAN1SH1NG

I've not deleted posts due to criticism. I've cleaned up a thread or two that were were more calling people names and such than anything constructive.

There are forum mods like GGQ who are actually quite active in cleaning up posts like that (@dvd can attest to this). I think you should leave it to them rather than cater your own subforum to what you think is appropriate. Anyway I'm over it, I'll just use water cooler for now.

Alright, I would like to poll for the removal (until edits make ladder-appropriate) of:
ball_carpia
ball_darkwar
ball_eidum
ball_firepark
ball_lostcity
ball_swarm (I think greycomb actually might be a nicer version of this)
ball_thorns
tbd_chess
tbd_fallout
tbd_swarm

[Slender]

Uh what is wrong with fallout again?

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by Slender

Uh what is wrong with fallout again?

I personally think fallout is poorly designed, but the nice thing about polling is that if most people disagree with me then we keep it!

[VAN1SH1NG]

Originally Posted by Fartface

There are forum mods like GGQ who are actually quite active in cleaning up posts like that (@dvd can attest to this). I think you should leave it to them rather than cater your own subforum to what you think is appropriate. Anyway I'm over it, I'll just use water cooler for now.

Future ladder specific threads in this forum will be ignored by me. Part of the reason I've cleaned up a thread or two is to save the forum mods the effort. Literally have only removed non-constructive posts, generally with whining/name calling.. example post by you "you're right, it takes an idiot" in response to a comment someone made. Most of the deleted posts aren't even aimed at me, usually others on the forum.

Originally Posted by Fartface

Alright, I would like to poll for the removal (until edits make ladder-appropriate) of...

Again you are missing the point. None of the newly added maps are eligible to be voted for removal yet other than maybe eidum. Heck, tbd_swarm has not even been played once in ladder (in random, but not much TBD played since added). And several people have expressed interest in playing real games on it. I've also really not received any criticism and/or suggestions on other new maps. That is step 1. Post WHY you do not like a map, preferably after playing on it at least 2-3 times, AND how you suggest improving it. I do remove maps temporarily after the current version has been tested and layout changes have been planned.

Carpia will probably get small adjustments, but I'd like to see a another game or two played on the current version.

Out of that list you are welcome to post polls for removal of ball_darkwar, ball_lostcity, ball_swarm, and tbd_fallout if you want. I think ball_swarm plays fine, but if the community wants changes that is preferred over removal. swarm is all texture based, making it very easy to modify any aspect of the layout. I also don't think a majority would want it removed anyway. I also like playing either version of ball_lostcity and tbd_fallout personally. I'd like to keep darkwar too, but out of all the older ball maps on ladder it is the one I think the community might prefer removed. I wouldn't really miss it if it was taken out of random.

As I said I really don't like to remove maps in SL/APL map pools, so those definitely require at least 75% voting to remove. They would also stay on the server if removed from the random list.

I don't think I ever had tbd_chess in random. I see no harm in keeping maps like this on the server in case there is ever a group of people who actually want to play it on ladder. ball_thorns was also only briefly in random. It seemed OK but needs some layout improvements. Unfortunately it has been so long since I've seen gameplay on it that you can expect it to briefly be added back to random at some point. I need to see it played at least a couple times again to determine changes needed. This can only be gathered from seeing actual ladder games played on it. There is no harm in having it on the server at the moment.

[Fartface]

It is my opinion that, if every player in ladder were polled, you would receive over 75% wish to remove all the maps on my list except ball_lostcity, tbd_fallout, and maybe ball_darkwar (I imagine these would gravitate more toward 50%).

I understand that you want to test new maps but when you add this many at one time ladder just becomes a map test server which is often contradictory to its purpose of high quality games. Maybe you should add no more than 2 new maps to the random rotation at any given time so that you can accomplish both map testing and good games at the same time.

[REDDRAGON]

if i were to poll bringing back old swarm how hard would it pass
i cant take this mo****in hexagon TYRANNY