Keyboard vs Mouse (Video)

[Radium]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

i told you i was fragile. stop it mssv you're hurting my feelings!

bro you are so weak
if you grew up in the mean streets of san jose like I did you would be torn up so fast

[Tekn0]

This video is such a false demonstration. I don't even know what the hell it's trying to prove. You circle at slow speed and let a couple of bots throw rockets at you. You don't die with one of the rockets even, not that you were close to any obstacle when that rocket explodes. The video only shows circling at slow speed is difficult with mouse. How can you even start comparing with just some random angle rockets against the two modes with unequal speeds.

Just making videos to look "scientific" and "well researched" and immediately people like Ribilla jump on to the bandwagon that this is somehow conclusive "scientific evidence" against thermo and keep tying to swell their propaganda that mouse is balanced in this aspect.

My allegations are from my experience and perceptions, I could be wrong and I'm willing to admit if I am, but almost always I've been able to identify who the mouse users are when I play thermo.

[[hlx] entr0py]

I have a bip video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEUzekJ6jrI

Anyway mssv, I think you have some good points but neither of the videos show the real problems. With "all mouse", its really easy to go into afterburner when you get thermoed or anything really. However, it would be harder to do the above with hybrid mouse. Really what I would like to have is "all mouse" minus the afterburner. Afterburner could be activated by an other key like shift and the throttle is still controlled the same way. This would fix one of the big issues of afterburning and using all of your energy unintentionally and potentially crashing.

Imo, the other major problem with mouse (which is partially fixed already) is the line of sight is significantly smaller when you are at the edge of the map because the plane has to be centered. Lamster implemented the NEVER_MOUSE config file option that fixes this by letting the mouse controlled plays go off center. This works 95% percent of the time, but now at the very, very edges of the map NEVER_MOUSE mouse users cant use the full range of their throttle. This could be fixed by having virutal space beyond the screen that surrounds the edges where the mouse could move but cant be seen.

As for not being able to fly in a circle as easily with mouse vs keyboard, I dont really think this is that big of a problem. I dont find myself requiring to fly in circles for very long in actual combat. With "all mouse" one can change direction and throttle power in one motion, which can be really useful. I think this is why most people use it, but mssv is right there are still some things that could be ironed out.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Radium

bro you are so weak
if you grew up in the mean streets of san jose like I did you would be torn up so fast

bro do you even lift

[[hlx] entr0py]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

bro do you even lift

Randas don't need lift. They fly on overpoweredness.

[mssv]

The only thing what I was trying to show it's that it's impossible for a all mouse user doing perfect 360º without changing throttle and keeping minimum speed, which in my opinion is a big disadvantage.

If you read my Balance of controls suggestions, I'm not complain nor trying to change or improve all mouse, I was only suggesting give to keyboard a line and a crosshair and add an option for better accuracy for edge of the screen shots for kb users. That's the only thing I was suggesting until clueless ppl started to say false things about all mouse.

This is why it's so frustrating to try to bring something on these forums and it's not worth any effort.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by [hlx] entr0py

I have a bip video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEUzekJ6jrI
I dont find myself requiring to fly in circles for very long in actual combat.

That's because you don't play TBD which is mostly flying in circles over and over!!!

[Aki1024]

So mouse gains a button that keeps them circling at their current speed, ignoring mouse facing direction and distance? For whale, I would love this.

[DICK van DYKE]

Originally Posted by Aki1024

So mouse gains a button that keeps them circling at their current speed, ignoring mouse facing direction and distance? For whale, I would love this.

This is a good suggestion. Solve control issues by making the controls better, not by tweaking what the plane's weapons do

[Tekn0]

Yeah adding a button to make circling with mouse easier seems acceptable.

[[hlx] entr0py]

Originally Posted by Aki1024

So mouse gains a button that keeps them circling at their current speed, ignoring mouse facing direction and distance? For whale, I would love this.

It sounds like it may be helpful. I would give it a try. Also, if there was an option to prevent All Mouse from going into afterburner and instead have afterburner a hotkey like Shift, that would solve the inadvertent afterburner problem.

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by [hlx] entr0py

Also, if there was an option to prevent All Mouse from going into afterburner and instead have afterburner a hotkey like Shift, that would solve the inadvertent afterburner problem.

When a plane stalls and you ask for thrust of any amount (mouse for thrust is around 20%+) it fires the after burner long enough to get the player out of stalling. KB might not see this if missiles alter their request thrust amount after getting hit. This amount is auto reset on mouse do to it's position.

"Inadvertent" afterburner problem isn't a problem. It's using the least amount of fuel to get us out of a stall. If you are attempting to use weapons, I'm fairly sure this auto anti stall after burner isn't used.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by [hlx] entr0py

It sounds like it may be helpful. I would give it a try. Also, if there was an option to prevent All Mouse from going into afterburner and instead have afterburner a hotkey like Shift, that would solve the inadvertent afterburner problem.

As long as when they get hit by thermo it still redirects them. If it really is that hard to circle then I would agree they should get something to lessen that.

[[hlx] entr0py]

Originally Posted by Aki1024

When a plane stalls and you ask for thrust of any amount (mouse for thrust is around 20%+) it fires the after burner long enough to get the player out of stalling. KB might not see this if missiles alter their request thrust amount after getting hit. This amount is auto reset on mouse do to it's position.

"Inadvertent" afterburner problem isn't a problem. It's using the least amount of fuel to get us out of a stall. If you are attempting to use weapons, I'm fairly sure this auto anti stall after burner isn't used.

My problem is that sometimes when I stall I have enough space to simply change direction and recover from the stall without using additional thrust. In practice, I can't actually perform this maneuver, because its nearly impossible to just turn with zero thrust during a stall using all mouse controls. Instead, afterburner activates and after I recover from the stall I have much less energy than I would have otherwise. This can be a big deal, especially with biplane in ball. I would estimate each time this happens I lose energy equivalent to 0.66 of a kill.

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

As long as when they get hit by thermo it still redirects them. If it really is that hard to circle then I would agree they should get something to lessen that.

The thermo redirection should be the same. The suggestions just effect the controls and not the plane physics.

[Shinshinai]

well, i personally just use mouse in a very weird way, and i seem to have 0 problems like random afterburning or stalling way more than you should,

I have mouse steering, with on M1 afterburn, with M2 slow down
Rest is normal keyboard settings, it seems to be lacking any of the problems of hard to controll close quarters or weird OP whalery.