Updating Spec Chat Rule

[VAN1SH1NG]

Server admins now have the ability to block people from using chat. Team/All chat can be blocked separately. This will be used for enforcing the spec chat rule, stopping new players from spamming all chat, and likely temporarily silencing players making racist or otherwise inappropriate remarks.

I'm still not a fan of the all or nothing approach we are using now. However, my alternative suggestion of automated chat limits did not seem very popular. I think with the new chat blocking feature it can work better though.

If we stick with the current spec chat rule, spec chat will become a command.. either /specchat or /sc. Calling it in chat will have no effect. I'd personally like to require that 2 tournament joined players call spec chat with the command for it to take effect. If 2 players call spec chat all specs are automatically blocked from using all chat until the next map change. The poll has options between 1 and 3 players, but most likely I would not use more than 2 for TBD and smaller game modes would be max 1 or 2 depending on number or players. 3 would only apply for ball. I personally think 3 is too many in any case but will go with it if highest result in poll. If there is a single player spamming, admins would manually block them for the rest of the game.

The alternative is automated restrictions on how much anyone, including tournament joined players, can all chat while a game is active. This would allow people to always be able to chat during games but heavily limit how much can be said. It would probably be some combination of lines of chat and characters sent during the last two minutes. If you exceed the limit you would get blocked from using all chat for 1-2 minutes.

Neither is a perfect solution, but either will be far better than what we have now. If you have any other ideas on how to implement this post your thoughts. You should still pick your preferred option in the poll though. If you want to vote for someone else's idea just post here in the thread recommending their idea.

[number 3]

Generally if 1 person calls spec chat in any case it should be respected upon. I don't think that it should go off of the amount of people that should have to say it but just how much its called. Example I call specchat because peins being annoying(obvsillyu) but he's still going on and on. Should he be punished by 1 person calling spec chat or what if the same person retypes /specchat or whatever the command is and the restrictions are much more severe which would result in a mute for time being until game is over. If you get muted for being specchatted i also think it should go on until the tournament is stopped and the match is over giving a new game the ability to talk. The only downside i see here is 1 person being able to just type the command twice for no reason and get anyone in the channel muted for the time being. Just some of my thoughts though

[Winters Ark]

I'm for either automated restrictions or two tournament players. Having the bar set to one player seems like it would be abused way too easily.

[VAN1SH1NG]

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

I'm for either automated restrictions or two tournament players. Having the bar set to one player seems like it would be abused way too easily.

Yes, I personally think the percentage of games with spec chat in effect would grow massively if set to one. I'm very surprised so many people voted for one. I'm sure also a lot of those voting three want the spec chat rule abolished so they are just picking the option that will let them chat the most.

If it continues to be split evenly between one and three, going to settle at two where I think it should be anyway. Really it is hard to tell exactly how things will go without implementing it though. Like even two might result in a very large percentage of games having spec chat on and might be forced to increase.

I think those voting one will still be happy with admin ability to restrict specific players from using all chat during games. If individual people are overly chatty I will definitely be blocking them from all chat if I'm online, hopefully before /specchat is called and everyone is silenced. I suppose it could also potentially be a combination of both /specchat and automation. If both, then automated blocks would require much higher levels of typing. Only those chatting constantly or spamming would ever reach the limits. Essentially what I really don't want to happen is a lot of /specchat because one single player is talking too much.

[Fartface]

I think the reason most people picked 1 is that that is literally how it works now and has worked since the start of ladder, and generally chaos has not ensued

[Slender]

Originally Posted by Fartface

I think the reason most people picked 1 is that that is literally how it works now and has worked since the start of ladder, and generally chaos has not ensued

Pretty much. Passing down how it always has been to a simple command seems the way to go for me.

[VAN1SH1NG]

Don't you realize how much it will be used though? People don't use it too much now because it is not automatic and half the time admins aren't even around (or not paying attention) so it is not enforced.

I certainly don't mind starting out at one so we can see how it goes, but I think it will result in most games having spec chat on.

To me it seems like 'spec chat' is generally used because either one player is spamming chat or two players are having a lengthy chat while playing. Personally I'd rather block the chatty players than prevent all specs from using all chat.

[Winters Ark]

Originally Posted by VAN1SH1NG

To me it seems like 'spec chat' is generally used because either one player is spamming chat or two players are having a lengthy chat while playing. Personally I'd rather block the chatty players than prevent all specs from using all chat.

All the more reason to just have automated restrictions instead of a command to block spec chat. Having an automated limit that forces people to keep it down wouldn't interfere with the normal dynamic of ladder where specs can praise a good play, but at the same time would make sure that there wouldn't be annoying conversations in all chat.

What I've normally done is just mute players that I found annoying in ladder. Having an automated way to keep down the inane banter would help keep my already full mute list from unmuting the people that I find really annoying.

EDIT: Maybe only have the /specchat command as an admin command to supplement an automated system. If things get out of control in chat and the automated system isn't enough then an admin can throw on /specchat for the rest of the game.

[Fartface]

The problem is, spec chat sometimes plays a very practical function in winning games. If someone on my team is having a lengthy discussion (or worse, heated argument) with someone in spec (who is often just trying to goad them, re: pein), then I call spec chat in order to stop my teammate from typing and focus on playing. Muting does not accomplish this. If you make 3 (or even 2) spec chat calls be necessary for this then I will just waste all my time PMing my ingame friends to call spec chat to meet the threshold.

The other thing is, somewhat ironically, spec chat is one of the most effective and most enforced rules in ladder right now (certainly more so than banning leavers). It is generally neither overused nor disobeyed.

I agree that making 1 vote necessary would increase the amount of spec chats. I think this is partially due to anonymity (many people don't call spec chat because they will be made fun of for it); this could maybe be solved by having the server make a message saying who wrote the command. Your automated chat limits may work, though I hesitate to believe that anything with the word "automated" in it will always have the desired effect. I would also be in favor of just keeping spec chat as is, though I know it's tempting to spruce up the command system.

The other thing is, I don't think it would be a tragedy of spec chat were called more often. People play ladder to have high-quality, competitive games. If you want to chat then you should spec, play elsewhere, use mumble, etc. That said I do enjoy being able to exchange the occasional word with specs while playing, which is why I think you shouldn't change it.

[Moon]

I chose the 2 vote system. The thing is that even with a voting system in place it does not mean that people will no longer be able to simply call out spec chats. It would only be used in special circumstances when the rule is not being adhered to and there are no admins willing to scare off or enfroce it, and I doubt that you would have a problem getting another person to vote for spec chat in such scenarios.

Anyway more than the specs writing random stuff into allChat, the problem lays more with actual tournament players using the chat system too much. If anyhing I'd strongly consider just blocking allChat for all tournament players by default or limiting it to only a few posts. (infact most teamChat conversations are just as distracting for the people engaged in them as allChat ones.. muting all+team chat options in my opinion would have a very minor if at all any negative impact on the quality of the games. More likely than not would actually improve them.)

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by VAN1SH1NG

I'm sure also a lot of those voting three want to spec chat rule abolished so they are just picking the option that will let them chat the most.

in hindsight perhaps an "abolish spec chat" option would have been more a more useful poll option than "no preference"

something to think about for the next poll, which will definitely influence your decision!

[JWhatever]

How does the command work, does it affect everyone in the server or does it need to be individually assigned to players (excluding tournament players)? Can the dude sitting in 5v6 situation chat from the bench if chat block is activated?

-J

[Carlos98]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

in hindsight perhaps an "abolish spec chat" option would have been more a more useful poll option than "no preference"

I abstained from voting because there were no "abolish" or "dont enforce" options.

[VAN1SH1NG]

There isn't much point in having an abolish/don't enforce option if that is never going to happen. As I've said I really don't like the current all or nothing approach, especially when it only requires one person to call spec chat. That one person may not even care about chat and just wants to do it to be annoying and/or do it just because they can.

But at the same time there can't be constant conversation with those playing to the point it causes them to not focus much on the actual game.

I will start coding the new spec chat today. There is no clear consensus in the poll results other than it seems people think /specchat command > having only automated chat limits. As I said I will likely start out at 2 and adjust from there as needed. I expect to also add an automated limit, but it will be higher than it would be if it there was no /specchat. The automated limit would really only be there to prevent admins from having to handle individual spammers, which causes them to have to pay attention and enforce subjectively.

[MagneticDuck`]

My personal solution to all this is just to always play with /captureMode 3

[Slender]

I've thought to myself many times that disabling the chat may be the solution to every single annoying thing people say but perhaps missing out on what admins may say is a huge inconvenience to me.

[JWhatever]

Originally Posted by Slender

I've thought to myself many times that disabling the chat may be the solution to every single annoying thing people say but perhaps missing out on what admins may say is a huge inconvenience to me.

Or your team mates. There should be a capturemode for only team chat and server admins.

-J

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

in hindsight perhaps an "abolish spec chat" option would have been more a more useful poll option than "no preference"

something to think about for the next poll, which will definitely influence your decision!

i would /y this option