srs spec chat discussion

[leggomyeggo]

spec chat rule itself is dumb, but my main problem is with its enforcement and its uses. for the purpose of my argument, here are my assumptions:

-spec chat rule was put in place to give all players the ability to play without having massive amounts of text all over their screen.
-anyone caught with malicious text after spec chat is called is banned
-anyone spamming after spec chat is called is banned
-any report of the spec chat rule being broken is taken care of with a ban, not a warning
-spec chat infractions are usually short, excluding repeat offenders

if any of my assumptions are wrong, please correct me as this is mainly what i am basing my argument off of.

now that that's taken care of, i would like to propose a change in the enforcement of spec chat. as it stands, it is just there to ban people for ****s and giggles. being banned for failure to comply with spec chat means nothing. it does not stop people from breaking it in the future, it is just a nuisance. this is usually because the ban is only 2 days, not enough time to provoke serious thought. i understand that this is due to the fact that it is a minor infraction and not thought of too seriously by most admins. that being said, i'd like the admins to consider increasing ban lengths for spec chat infractions.



i would also like the admins to be more lenient on banning for spec chat rule breakers. yeah, i know, sounds like i'm being a hypocrite, but i'm not. what i would like to happen is for the admins to only ban for serious spec chat infractions, but ban for a serious amount of time, let's say 2 weeks minimum. why am i proposing this, you may ask? well, you see, when a man loves a woman...err... take 2... well, as i said earlier, people don't respect a 2 day ban at all. hardly anybody even makes a big discussion on the forums about it and nobody ever throws around facepalm pictures like they do for all the other bans. the bad thing is, people would be pisssssssssssed if they got banned for 2 weeks for saying "u" after spec chat is called. so, let's compromise! spamming or repeated malicious messages sent in all chat after spec chat is called will result in a 2 week ban minimum. you guys can do your fancy calculations for people with 12 bans who have been permabanned before but were allowed back into ladder COUGH COUGH.

tl;dr: spec chat rule is dumb and horribly enforced, let's change it to less bans but for longer periods of time.

DISCUSS. (btw i might actually read some of your longass responses because i'm the one who created this thread, but please keep your responses less than a 5 page essay because as seen above, i lack coherence in long posts) HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE, BATMAN.

[darknietzsche]

Here is my view on this ban. While I say that your points you pointed out are mostly valid, here is my view on why I ban for spec chat.

1) For super excessive chat which is the main reason for the rule.

2) In the last month especially the people of ladder have shrunk their maturity level down about 10 years. If I had to guess the average age of ladder players would be around 18, and I know almost everyone that plays ladder has enough intelligence and can speak/read english well enough to comprehend the rules. Yet I have seen some serious immaturity past just saying "you are bad" or "**** you"...sarcastic or not I have seen people tell others "they should die or kill themselves" this along with other terms I deem just plain unacceptable. This now leads to when I want to ban people for spec chat. Usually if people are not spamming things, and are only saying certain non-offensive things, then it is fine, but when people decide to break the spec chat rule with general immaturity and absolute unacceptable diction in my opinion I will ban. This is especially true since I had to warn people about telling other people to die. Basically my stricter enforcement of this rule is the due to the fact people can't behave themselves.

Also, this punishment does not get handed out very much despite what you may think. And for me I punish solely based on the times a person has been banned while taking into consideration intent. Which usually means if I ban someone for spec chatting they are going to get hit for a longer amount of time then say someone who has to leave barring a good reason (keeping into consideration number of bans for each player are equal).

With only 3 maybe 4 active admins, I doubt change is going to occur, and I do not think there is a major problem with the enforcement of this rule, because every rule is basically decided by the admin for the time/punishment for said person. If anything, maybe the entire structure of how the admins ban should be taken into consideration, but in the end I think our system is mostly a fair and lenient process while weeding out the people obviously who do not want to be in ladder to actually play.

Edit: And as always if someone posts on the thread about a possible spec chat rule violation I take into consideration everything they present as evidence and decide from there. This is treated just like every other rule that we have to me, and if I feel there is not enough evidence or that the spec chat violation in question is not serious enough I will not ban said person.

[leggomyeggo]

completely agree with everything you've stated. i know people don't get banned often for spec chat violations, however, i can't help but get annoyed when they do, me specifically. one of the things that most annoys me is how players tend to use the spec chat rule. one example i've personally seen has been that players with a vendetta against others will abuse the spec chat rule to get a ban or simply to annoy the other party. if one person says spec chat just to annoy one party in the spectators, the entire spec team is forced to team chat. that just seems like abuse to me.

also, i would like to see restructuring in the entire ladder administration, but i still think that that's impossible for me to pull off. i'll settle for at least a progression towards a more better ladmin system.

[soccernamlak]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

one example i've personally seen has been that players with a vendetta against others will abuse the spec chat rule to get a ban or simply to annoy the other party. if one person says spec chat just to annoy one party in the spectators, the entire spec team is forced to team chat. that just seems like abuse to me.

I've seen it and I agree with you, but unfortunately I think there's not much we can do about it here. We have to err in favor of the players, not the spectators.


My position on spec chat is that I expect everyone on ladder to have at least a 5th grade reading comprehension and maturity level. That means when spec chat is called, I assume all players know it's been called and can understand the implications from it.

Regarding people who break it from there:

- If it's just a quick "lol" after some fail or a "gj" "n1" after a goal is scored, I have no issues with that. I'm not going to ban.

- If multiple people are actually chatting after it is called, I usually will do one blanket warning telling people to shut it or get banned.

- If they continue, that's usually when the ban comes out.


Regarding your points Leggo:

- I do think sometimes a harsher ban might enforce the rule a bit more, so that a ban becomes a big deal rather than a minor inconvenience.


- Since you make mention multiple times about the Ladder Administration Thread and a recent spec chat ban, one of the points that was brought up to me was this idea about timing. Obviously spec chat can and has been called early on in a game before when there was a flurry of spam. Which is fine. What was mentioned to me was the possibility of allowing spec chat to slowly open back up again as the game progresses. As you mentioned Leggo, a quick "u" later on in the game isn't causing as much disruption as lines of text by multiple people.


However, against this is the fact we should err for the benefit of the players. And the fact that I, again, expect people to remember within a 10 minute window that spec chat has been called and to continue abiding by that rule.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by soccernamlak

- Since you make mention multiple times about the Ladder Administration Thread and a recent spec chat ban, one of the points that was brought up to me was this idea about timing. Obviously spec chat can and has been called early on in a game before when there was a flurry of spam. Which is fine. What was mentioned to me was the possibility of allowing spec chat to slowly open back up again as the game progresses. As you mentioned Leggo, a quick "u" later on in the game isn't causing as much disruption as lines of text by multiple people.

to add to this, i believe it should be acceptable for one liners to slowly creep on as well. for clarification, i don't mean things like gj, np, nt, etc. i'm more talking about "hey dragon i saw this really hot asian girl the other day". after maybe 3 or 4 minutes, little sentences should be able to creep back into a normal chat like spec chat was never called. if the person who called spec chat earlier feels as if it is still disruptive or still feels like being a prick, they can go ahead and call it again to reset the "social timer". in this way, spec chat could be used almost as a reset button. if people start talking nonstop, simply hit the reset button, and conversation cuts off and slowly moves to a normal pace.


However, against this is the fact we should err for the benefit of the players. And the fact that I, again, expect people to remember within a 10 minute window that spec chat has been called and to continue abiding by that rule.

i think the real problem with this is that the players don't really need spec chat. they have the option to mute, /capturemode, decrease their chat opacity, or *gasp* ignore the chatters. i think the one legitimate use of spec chat is so that people who are ignorant to other forms of blocking people are able to stop excessive chatting. with a more of a reset button idea, the excessive chatting cuts out for a while, and then moves on to a normal ladder chatting experience.

responses in bold, things i agreed with and did not want to add commentary to i cut out.

[sunshineduck]

the social timer concept is interesting but is too subjective to implement into administration. it leaves far too much room for complaints of bias (warranted or not). there are very few things (if any at all) that absolutely *must* be said from spec chat to someone in game that need to be seen by everyone in the server. while i would much prefer if everyone always wanted to hear my stories, i am aware that certain people are sensitive to text and do not want to mute me and it really isn't all that difficult to just not say anything.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

the social timer concept is interesting but is too subjective to implement into administration. it leaves far too much room for complaints of bias (warranted or not). there are very few things (if any at all) that absolutely *must* be said from spec chat to someone in game that need to be seen by everyone in the server. while i would much prefer if everyone always wanted to hear my stories, i am aware that certain people are sensitive to text and do not want to mute me and it really isn't all that difficult to just not say anything.

you must not have many interesting stories. anyways, i get what you're saying, it was just a thought floating around my head.

[AzzedariuSuiradezza]

i think the real problem with this is that the players don't really need spec chat. they have the option to mute, /capturemode, decrease their chat opacity, or *gasp* ignore the chatters. i think the one legitimate use of spec chat is so that people who are ignorant to other forms of blocking people are able to stop excessive chatting. with a more of a reset button idea, the excessive chatting cuts out for a while, and then moves on to a normal ladder chatting experience.

I'm not a fan of any of those. I don't see why I should be making changes during a game just because some mouthbreather ran out of adderall and can't shut it for a maximum of 15 minutes when I can call specchat while respawning and have it all go away(in one way or another).

If you're so hellbent on talking to people who are currently playing, sit the next game and talk to them in the *gasp* specchat.

teh solutionz, tehy r verrywere

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

i think the real problem with this is that the players don't really need spec chat. they have the option to mute, /capturemode, decrease their chat opacity, or *gasp* ignore the chatters. i think the one legitimate use of spec chat is so that people who are ignorant to other forms of blocking people are able to stop excessive chatting. with a more of a reset button idea, the excessive chatting cuts out for a while, and then moves on to a normal ladder chatting experience.

Mute causes defriending. /capturemode removes team chat. the third and fourth options still waste time of the player who is determining if that player is chatting on their team or isn't in the game.

I have spoken before that I feel this is a software issue, not a people issue.

[tomato man]

Leggo you re the first that always talk wehn speced. so i think he s asking to be banned

[Ingbo]

think its a bad rule personally, i never used to ban ppl for it, no matter how "excessive" (like theres a way to get consistancy in a subjective question), also we have a mute button and no it doesnt take long to use it.

i think there are times where subjective decision making might be superior or viewing it from case to case but on this specific area where every ban has to be viewed individually it just boggles my mind the inconsistency in bans between different admins in similar situations.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by AzzedariuSuiradezza

I'm not a fan of any of those. I don't see why I should be making changes during a game just because some mouthbreather ran out of adderall and can't shut it for a maximum of 15 minutes when I can call specchat while respawning and have it all go away(in one way or another).

If you're so hellbent on talking to people who are currently playing, sit the next game and talk to them in the *gasp* specchat.

teh solutionz, tehy r verrywere

yeah, that's reasonable. using your argument, why should i have to be making changes to the way i enjoy ladder because some kid on a team can't concentrate and won't take 3 seconds to mute me? anyways, we're getting away from the point of this discussion. i'm not trying to repeal the spec chat rule entirely even though it is dumb, i would just like some modifications to it.

teh solutionz, tehy r verrywere

Originally Posted by Aki1024

Mute causes defriending. /capturemode removes team chat. the third and fourth options still waste time of the player who is determining if that player is chatting on their team or isn't in the game.

I have spoken before that I feel this is a software issue, not a people issue.

if you tell someone on your friends list to shut up while being completely serious and they don't, then you should defriend them. i agree /capturemode isn't the most viable option, but how often do people in ladder actually use team chat for something other than gj, np, etc? from what i've seen, it's used very rarely to tell someone to switch planes, not really too big of a deal. for the third option, i would assume that the player can find a suitable chat opacity that allows them to find significant team chat easily while still being able to play uninterrupted by super bright yellow text.

as for the software: i feel as if it has potential, but that it is unnecessary. by now, everybody knows that they shouldn't chat after spec chat is called. so, usually, they shut up. i don't think that we need a system that disallows all spec chat. what if i want to tell someone gj or np or try going low next time or countless other small things?

Originally Posted by tomato man

Leggo you re the first that always talk wehn speced. so i think he s asking to be banned

honestly i don't give two ****s if i'm banned, as long as there's a legitimate reason. i just think that this ladder rule is enforced poorly and the rule itself is unnecessary.

also @ingbo, ditto.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

spec chat rule itself is dumb, but my main problem is with its enforcement and its uses. for the purpose of my argument, here are my assumptions:

-spec chat rule was put in place to give all players the ability to play without having massive amounts of text all over their screen.
-anyone caught with malicious text after spec chat is called is banned
-anyone spamming after spec chat is called is banned
-any report of the spec chat rule being broken is taken care of with a ban, not a warning
-spec chat infractions are usually short, excluding repeat offenders

if any of my assumptions are wrong, please correct me as this is mainly what i am basing my argument off of.

now that that's taken care of, i would like to propose a change in the enforcement of spec chat. as it stands, it is just there to ban people for ****s and giggles. being banned for failure to comply with spec chat means nothing. it does not stop people from breaking it in the future, it is just a nuisance. this is usually because the ban is only 2 days, not enough time to provoke serious thought. i understand that this is due to the fact that it is a minor infraction and not thought of too seriously by most admins. that being said, i'd like the admins to consider increasing ban lengths for spec chat infractions.



i would also like the admins to be more lenient on banning for spec chat rule breakers. yeah, i know, sounds like i'm being a hypocrite, but i'm not. what i would like to happen is for the admins to only ban for serious spec chat infractions, but ban for a serious amount of time, let's say 2 weeks minimum. why am i proposing this, you may ask? well, you see, when a man loves a woman...err... take 2... well, as i said earlier, people don't respect a 2 day ban at all. hardly anybody even makes a big discussion on the forums about it and nobody ever throws around facepalm pictures like they do for all the other bans. the bad thing is, people would be pisssssssssssed if they got banned for 2 weeks for saying "u" after spec chat is called. so, let's compromise! spamming or repeated malicious messages sent in all chat after spec chat is called will result in a 2 week ban minimum. you guys can do your fancy calculations for people with 12 bans who have been permabanned before but were allowed back into ladder COUGH COUGH.

tl;dr: spec chat rule is dumb and horribly enforced, let's change it to less bans but for longer periods of time.

DISCUSS. (btw i might actually read some of your longass responses because i'm the one who created this thread, but please keep your responses less than a 5 page essay because as seen above, i lack coherence in long posts) HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE, BATMAN.

Super cereal.

[zz-]

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by Ingbo

think its a bad rule personally, i never used to ban ppl for it, no matter how "excessive" (like theres a way to get consistancy in a subjective question), also we have a mute button and no it doesnt take long to use it.

obviously you've never played with Paradigm unmuted.

[classicallad]

Pretty sure there is a command whereby it politley informs people trying to pm you that you are busy. that solves that one.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by classicallad

Pretty sure there is a command whereby it politley informs people trying to pm you that you are busy. that solves that one.

/dnd true, but i don't remember that being an issue.

zz stop lagging my page, gif so sloww.